Re: Turbo Diesel Powered
 

Cobra, as I said... I may be a little harsh and it may be a different and better product, it's just that I've been told that story before. I've had problems with the KAD44 package and was assured that KAD300 will be the business. Well, no luck even though Volvo people were always there for me and do stand behind their product (over here at least). However, this does not eliminate downtime. And I really didn't want any downtime on a diesel-powered 40' express cruiser which tops out at 40 mph. It's not like I bought a 120+ V-bottom with blown V8s. So, maybe DPR will work out, I'm trying to keep my mind open but I do have a bad taste in my mouth.

Jeff, I would go with a twin 440 application and it's just a question of balance. If I had a choice b/w a 3 engine and a 4 engine application, I would choose a 4 engine boat for the same reason. The only reason a 3 engine setup would be better is if you can get on plane with only two engines running. But with two 315s, I doubt it. In terms of consumption, I believe it would be a close call. Not sure but I even have the feeling that the twin boat would do a bit better in terms of fuel economy.

In terms of Arnesons vs. Weismann drives, I believe Weismanns would be a bit faster getting on plane and would be easier for docking. But not really sure, I don't know Weismanns very well, not a great deal of experience there. I believe that Arnesons are not bad for docking. It takes some time to get used to them but they're OK. However, I do believe Arnesons will give you a higher top end. So IMHO, it's gonna be a slight advantage to Weismann for getting on plane and docking, slight advantage for Arnesons in terms of top end performance. Not really sure though...

As far as tuning Yanmars is concerned, just turn up the fuel supply. About 500 to 550 can be done safely, after that I don't really know. I've heard stories of over 600hp. with more extensive modifications (turbo) but don't know how well that worked or if it happened at all.

Seateks are realible if you do your maintenance regularly. Don't expect to get the reliability usually associated with diesels. My experience is: 250 to 300 hours, they need to be serviced, the sort of thing I expect you would do with an HP500 after say 100 hours. After 3 of those, a full rebuild is required so you could go for up to 1000 hours before this is required. Then, the best thing to do is to pull them and send them back to the factory where they rebuild them better than new. It's costly but then you basically have new motors with a 6 month warranty (may be 1 year now since new EEC regulations stipulate that). How many times you can do that before you have to bin the block, I don't know... But in general, it's how you treat them. With proper warm-ups, regular oil changes and routine checkups, I've seen people do 500 trouble-free hours without opening them. Then again, I've seen people behaving badly and needing rebuilds after little over 100 hours. BTW, this is for versions with closed cooling. If you can fit the exchanger and don't mind the extra 80 lbs. or whatever it is, take them. Actually, even if you do mind the extra 80 lbs, do not make that mistake because it is a big one...

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Thanks again for your help Super T, I apprieciate it, Jeff :)

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Super T what do you mean by do not make that mistake it's a big one?

Again is there any mfg putting these in a go fast with a single engine?
I want to be able to call Pantera or Formula and order a 28'-30' with a single diesel set up right at the factory.

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5000? No way. You're thinking of a low speed diesel. The Seateks are considered "High Speed". I'd expect these to be in the 1,000 hour range.

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I've looked into this a few times and think it is the wave of the future. Everyone thought I was crazy when I suggested it in 96, now its much more common. Biggest problem is till the drive. How big a problem depends on you opinion. I spoke at lenght with Cummins and Yanmar in 2001 about building a Eliminator 36 cat with twin TDs. Cummins had done extensive testing with the Bravo but found they consistantly failed around 1200-1400 hours. The testing involved running the engine at 100% and cyling the prop in and out of the water on a big vertical sled. Basically simulating the worst conditions possible. This was a regular Bravo, so the XR and XZ should last longer. So who cares if it lasts 1500 hours, the second problem is the rpm range. You need a two speed tranny if you want to go fast. If you prop the boat for 80 mph, the props are too big to get on plane and if you go smaller you lose top speed. So now we need a tranny. The dream solution to me is to get the new Ford 6.0L powerstroke into a boat. It has a very broad power range with a max rpm of around 4000, making it much more managable. Pair that to an Bravo XR and put two of them in a 30-35' and you have a great package. Maybe someday, for now I am happy with my 525's. BTW, how about a turbine!!!!

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Is there a 2 speed diesel trans available?

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Twin Fords......YEAH BABY!

It would be heavy but the ride would be nice. I could afford to drive the thing at least.

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Trying to bring this post back.

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When I was in Cape Cod a couple weeks ago I spotted a twin cat powered Outerlimits dry docked. Looked like something was being worked on but not sure.
Man those were some huge exhaust pipes on that mother!!!

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Hey Guys
Just to wet your appetite a little. We are prototyping and testing a current V-8 electronic twin tubo diesel motor that will be 500HP+ -750+ torque and will run thru a semi-automatic 2 speed tranny and a bullet proof outdrive. The whole package weighs about 1450 lbs with closed cooling and will fit in most boat engine compartments. Will obvoiusly cost more than gas engine package, but when you consider mileage, crusing range and engine life it will be attractive to many, including those damn insurance companies! Should push most performance hulls equal to about 550HP gas and get a lot better mileage.I can't discuss specifics now but it should be ready for market in about 9 months. I'll keep you posted when I can discuss more.
Ray @ Raylar - "Where innovation fuels applications"

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I will be anxious to see that application noted above.

I was in the Dominican Republic a few weeks ago and chartered a private go-fast that had been converted into a cventer console ( think it was a Corsa). It was about 28' and had the Mercury diesel in it with a Bravo. While the captain didnt have the boat propped for speed he still told me that he had had no problems and had run 1,000 hours already. He was running about 4 gallons per hour which explained why it cost only $100 to charter the boat for half a day. It was only about 250 or 275 horsepower.

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Im very interested in diesel applications, especially higher hp motors. The only problem I'm having is the speed loss, it's hard getting out of a gas motor application knowing you can do 80-84mph all the time with just twin reliable 750hp motors, and then going to the new diesel Yanmar 500hp motors to maybe low to mid 70's. I could possibly handle mid to upper 70's, I just want my cake and eat it too. :D Jeff

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Jeff,
Did you sell your 43 vee yet?
Stern drives are the way to go on a stepped vee. The production of the Yanmar was delayed this year on the 440 and they will not have any until Jan. Are you planning on staggard or side by side? There is a big difference on the cg of the boat with tripples vs twins and the side by side vs staggard or in-line. There are several things to look at with the whole application.

I should be in your neighborhood soon (if you guys don't float away in the storm) I will stop by. Good luck with Ivan.
pat W

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Hey Pat, hows it going. I didn't sell it yet, just 1 low, low offer. I am wanting to go with another 4300, I love the boat, if doesnt sell, a good winter project will be your drives on this boat. But then I will have to do something to the motors as well, maybe a Whipple or two :rolleyes: Storm is heading right for MS, I'm getting kind of nerveous, I better start drinking now :drink: Take care Jeff

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Jassman I agree totally.. diesels are on the way in.. just finished a 32. pachanga with 315 yanmars and new bravos right out of the box almost 60 mph .. but the cruising is what the customer was looking for 55mph burning 8-9 gals an hour.. not bad considering he gets fuel delivered to his house for under $1.40 a gallon.. got close to 50 hours on my 36' Spectre w/ canopies 440 yanmars bumped up a little. XR w/ sportmaster lowers 2 speed transmissions ..running right at 100 needing more prop. but still only burning less than 15 gals an hour of that $1.40 a gal stuff.. and cant forget about that 2000 hour warranty which they come with ..current project last years
FLOWMASTER 40' skater is being converted into what should be the ULTIMATE PLEASURE BOAT TWIN 500HP yanmars 2 speed trans, coupled to a #6 with herring skegs full magic bus electronics system.. lots of extras .. any questions .... will keep informed of progress

Re: Turbo Diesel Powered
 

Platinum Member


Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 314 Re: Turbo Diesel Powered

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Guys
Just to wet your appetite a little. We are prototyping and testing a current V-8 electronic twin tubo diesel motor that will be 500HP+ -750+ torque and will run thru a semi-automatic 2 speed tranny and a bullet proof outdrive. The whole package weighs about 1450 lbs with closed cooling and will fit in most boat engine compartments. Will obvoiusly cost more than gas engine package, but when you consider mileage, crusing range and engine life it will be attractive to many, including those damn insurance companies! Should push most performance hulls equal to about 550HP gas and get a lot better mileage.I can't discuss specifics now but it should be ready for market in about 9 months. I'll keep you posted when I can discuss more.
Ray @ Raylar - "Where innovation fuels applications"
__________________
"Nothing is impossible, it just costs more!"



So do you have an update Ray?

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There are 3 companies right now working on 700-800hp prototype deisel application in marine use. by the end of the summer I think deisels and turbos will be the next generation of marine power on high horsepower applications.

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Everyone talks about how diesels have too much torque for a Bravo drive and you have to use a tranny. If you are going to use a tranny can you make it an overdrive and reduce the torque to the drive and use more normal pitch props?

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I met a lady in Melbourne with a 50' (or so) Nortech with triple Yanmars. I think she was from Tennessee.

She had the boat trucked from Tenn to Ft. Meyers, came across the Lake and up to Melbourne to visit family. In fact she stayed on the boat for most of her visit here--like weeks.

When the lady left here the plan was to run offshore to FTL for some warranty work then have boat taken back to Tenn by transporter.

She said she was going to be able run from Sebastion Inlet to FTL at 80MPH in 3-4 seas. She set up autopilot and radar, warmed up the 3 Yanmars (and the genset for the AC) and off she went.

Beautiful boat and a very impressive lady to take all that on.

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Outerlimits runs a pair of CAT 3116 w/ arnesons and 2 speed tranny's over 75 mph. It is the CATS meow..... Nice set up if you run a ton of hours. Paul Fiore used to commute to long island from rhode island.

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Were still proto-typing and do'in our magic on a diesel package. Yes it will have a multi-speed ECM driven tranny and it will be equipped with current outdrive technology that will handle to power and torque just fine.The real problems come from trying to make sure it doesn't lay down black smoke screens, sounds like a v-8 performance gas engine,fits in standard industry v-8 engine package sizing, doesn't cost a "bloody" fortune, runs seamless and is extremely reliable. Doesn't sound like to big of a mountain to climb , does it!!. Heck, we love challanges! We'll do it, be sure of that, we did it with the 496 we can do it here! I will make a predicition right now, oil at $60 a barrel, performance diesel boats will be in at 30% of market by 2010!!

Ray @ Raylar

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Just read an article in Powerboat about Larry who used to run Scarab. He also has something in the works in the 30' range that's diesel powered.

I'm going to look into that and if I can find a web site I'll post up the link here.

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Great thread and perfect timing to boot!

For the past few weeks, I've been working with John Coen at Superboat. We are working on building one of his 30' Y2K stepped V's with a single Yanmar 440, Super Cyborg BAM transmission and the mighty Konrad 540 HP sterndrive.

We've done all the measuring. The 30' Superboat engine compartment has the room needed for the Yanmar and tranny. The Yanmar has gobs of torque and we will build the drive with a ratio in the neighborhood of 1.22:1 or so to increase the propshaft speed.

This combination should make for a pretty sweet rig, easy on fuel, very low maintenance and strong performance.

How much interest in this combo?

Kurt [email protected] 715-410-0735

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Biggus:

That sounds amazing. Im interested.

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Biggues:

In fact, check out my post in the Superboat section. Funny timing.

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How we coming Ray, anymore good news, very interested in this set up. :cool: Thanks Jeff ... I sent you a pm

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Come the end of May I maybe selling my 42' Fountain with Yanmar's. It runs in the mid 70's all day and gets 2mph.

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How about Bank's new twin turbo Durmax that they are going to sell as a create engine. Someone want to make it work for a boat. 750HP 1100lbs. I think it revs up too, but still a two speed would be nice. Oh i don't mind black smoke, I have cleaner...(already have to clean all the water scum off, and i clean the black off the truck already too). Besides exit the exhaust low like in the new nortech might not be too bad.

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We are currently developing a diesel marine engine based on the Cummings 5.9liter. Power between 300 - 750 hp.
Fits almost any engine compartment. Have one on dyno.
We are located in Belgium Europe

Someone could be interested for one of these?

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What size are you talking about, for comparison to Yanmar, the 315hp block or the 480hp block size. Thanks Jeff

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Ray, anything yet, very interested. Deposit goes in next week. Thanks Jeff

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Can someone explain where and how does the 2 speed tranny work on a diesel application. Motors will probably be Yans new 480's and drives will be asd-8's. Thanks Jeff


Ray anything yet, I emailed you also last week. Jeff

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yves...
do you have any pictures... I'm going to buy a cummins soon and have been working on the design of a tubular waterjacketed exhaust and twin turbo set up.

if you do send them to me and I can post them for you [email protected]

Ernie

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Don't mean to be picky, but if you guys are building up a CUMMINS, then get the spelling wright....

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Yves,

can you provide us with more information?

Andreas

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There is a 1000hp deisel on the boards, just hold on this will be the power of the future, and also a 1000hr warranty, working on the torque curve, tranny due to the low rpm and torque curve requires some different gear scenarios, but its in the works now,

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Wiggler, I hope you are talking Hi Perf Diesel.
Cuz here is one w/ lots of HP. :D

http://www.mandiesel.com/V12-1550_CRM_spec.htm

http://www.mandiesel.com/V12-1550%20Engine.gif

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Hi performance application all the way, I think blower motors will start to phase out when this technology finally hits.

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still very cool, but geared more towards cruiser or larger boats. NO RPMS and extremely heavy.