Why so much for marine motors?
 

I found this on Ebay

572 CID Merlin Marine Engines [2] $127,000 original cost!!!!!!!!!!!
Big Block Chevy type

Absolute best of the best of everything. Merlin 4.5x4.5 bore/stroke. Callies crank, Oliver rods, and JE pistons with ARP rod bolts. Sendure heat exchangers...one for water and another for oil/trans. Both are hughly oversized. Brand new MSD systems including new MSD distributors. Closed loop freshwater cooled with Jabsco pumps. Merlin heads with Ferrea valves 2.8 inch intake and 1.88 exhaust severe duty. Oval port Merlin heads with 265 port volume on intake and 298 port volume on the exhaust. Designed for lower RPM torque. Peak is around 2800-3000 rpm. Stainless Marine exhaust the best there is according to Joey for longevity and durability. Roller cam with roller valve train by Competition Cams. Counter rotating setup. These engines had 20 hours on them when I got them and Joey Griffin has detuned them to run on pump gas with a 8.5 to 1 compression ratio. He has tuned and dynoed them and they are absolutely ready to drop in and go. They are perfect for someone who wants "more" that has an express cruiser or sportfisherman and if you have a performance boat with a simple cam change they can be turned into fire breathers. Joey estimated a cam change would run about $2500 to complete. They also have Stewart nascar water pumps with the high volume flow, remote oil filters, alternators, stainless braided steel lines, Carbs are custom built and tuned by Joey. These engines had Lingerfelter stump pulling plenum boxes with Kinsler fuel injection which Joey said just take it off and put carbs on them. I have that too if interested. Joey says he can't duplicate these for under $60,000. They are super nice but divorce forces sale.

What gives with marine motors. I could build this same motor and have the machine work done by Diamond Racing (who does only race motors) in Clinton Township, for less than half the price. Are boat motors like corvette parts?

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Cause they can...

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Thats pretty much it.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Ya wanna play , you're gonna p_ay :D

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Yeah, you can walk into almost any Chevrolet dealership and order a 550 hp. crate motor for about eight grand. It sucks that "marine" motors are two/three times the price.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

just a couple of reasons: compare the duty cycle of a marine motor to an automotive; count the accessories required on a marine motor; price out a good set of exhaust manifolds/tail pipes; blowers & blower drive system, fuel injection, +more...

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

the same reason a house on the water cost more................................... cause it on the water................Rag's

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Marine = Mo $$$$

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Whilw what most of you guys say is true, marine motors are expensive due to the parts and accessories used. For example, we sell a 540c.i. long block for around 12K, but the complete engine cost 22K. We don't make any more money for the complete engine, because the accessories cost so much. There are several builders, most with automotive backgrounds, who offer a cheaper product, but it is just that, a cheaper product. Bottom line is, you get what you pay for, and its alot cheaper to do it right the first time.

Steve

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

what should be ballpark for 1000hp 598 cid engine?

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

What irritated me was that a cam change was going to cost $2500. WTF, the motors were already roller cams so all the guy had to do was buy 2 new cams (at the most $700 in parts) So there is $1700 in labor. If I told the last guy that came into our shop it would cost him $800 in labor to change his cam, I would get the State on my a$$ or he would have gone somewhere else. Plus this guy must be a real moron. He said that Joey Griffin told him to take the fuel injection off and put on carbs?????????
I hate ignorant people like that, They perpetuate the notion that fuel injection is scary voodoo and is worse that carbs. Joey probably had some dusty carbs on the shelf and saw this guy coming with the words "SUCKER" written on his forehead. If you ask if I have carbs or fuel injection on my boat, the answer is carbs, but that is only because I just bought the boat. I WILL be taking them off over the winter and putting on a pair of MEFI boxes. I am a firm believer that fuel injection IS SUPERIOR to carburetors.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

How differnt are freshwater cooled marine engines and street engines?
How much is actually involved in converting it?

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

$2500 is not bad for a cam change on 2 engines if you do it right and get high quality parts. New cam means new lifters too, if you do it right. Also the new cam will require different springs. Thats about $1000 per engine in parts alone.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

One word= MARINE :rolleyes:

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

I was looking at a boat that needed work and repowering.

http://www.bayshorepowermarine.com/pages/11/index.htm

Merc HP 525 EFI $ 26,335.00 ; HP 500 $ 22,500
Merc XR Sportmaster drive $ 9,495

Merc Twin setups: $ 71,660

Then I went shopping and found Chief Engines http://www.chiefengines.com/engines.php
to offer some fine products at great prices as well as other marine manufacturers:

Chief HP 525 $ 20,000.00
Chief 575 HP $27,500 ( $ 1165.00 more than a 525EFI)
Chief 675 HP SC EFI $ 30,000.00 (Only $ 3,665.00 more than a HP 525)

I was looking at the Chief HP 740 EFI Looks like a great package for the money.

Chief 740 HP SC EFI $ $ 33,000.00

Crankshaft Horsepower.......... 740 HP
Displacement................... 540 CI
Bore........................... 4.500
Stroke......................... 4.250
Maximum RPM.................... 5200-5400 RPM
Maximum Torque................. 780 Ft/Lbs
Idle RPM in Neutral............ 1000 RPM
Compression Ratio.............. 8.6:1
Operating Temperature.......... 142F
Timing @ 4000 RPM.............. 34 Degrees
Firing Order................... 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Fuel Requirements.............. 93 Octane Minimum
Block.......................... Merlin III, Siamese Bore, Cast Iron, Four Bolt Main
Crankshaft..................... Lunati 4340 Forged Steel
Rods........................... Manley I beam forged 4340 Steel,7/16 Bolts, Shotpeened
Pistons........................ JE 2618 Forged Aluminum
Piston Rings................... Standard Tension
Cylinder Heads................. Merlin VR cast iron C-N-C ported, Rectangular Port
Valves - Intake................ Manley 2.300 Severe Duty
Valves - Exhaust............... Manley 1.880” Dia. Inconel
Cam............................ Hydraulic Roller
Lifters........................ Hydraulic Roller
Pushrods....................... 080 Wall
Rocker Arms.................... Chief Full Roller
Intake......................... Blower Shop
Supercharger................... Blower Shop 6-71
Fuel Injection................. Chief Competition Engine Managment
Fuel Pump...................... Holley dual diaphragm / EFI hi pressure
Exhaust System................. Stainless Marine Dominator
Oil Pump....................... High Volume / 10 quart
Ignition....................... Chief Competition Engine Management / Thunderbolt IV
Charging System................ 12 Volt/65 AMP
Alarm System................... Chief Competition Engine Management / Audio/ Visual/ Water Temp/ Oil Press.
Transmission................... MerCruiser Bravo System, Modified Borg Warner
It appears that the price includes the drive as well.

740 HP SC Carb $ 29,000 ($ 3,000 more than a 525 EFI)

It just seems that buying the right amount of HP you need in the first place is the way to go if you can. Get a package that is designed from the ground up to handle the extra HP and heat and realizing the XR is good up to 550 HP max beyond that Imco extreme drives or # 6's . Getting a custom built boat makes a lot of sense. In the short term it's about the same price and in the long term cheaper in that the engine is designed for a specific HP.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Kinsler fuel injection is mechanical and somewhat finicky. If someone wanted to use these in a fish/cruiser boat like this guy says then carbs would be more manageable. But if I was looking to go big on a repower the only logical choice would be diesel before you bought those motors for a fish/cruise boat.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

If you want to play you have to pay, that is the bottom line
It takes alot of time to build a quality marine race motor. You
just dont know unless you have witness one being built right.

I am building a 598 ci at the moment and has taking me about
10 hours just to get the clearances on the crank by line bore and hone,
changing bearing sizes H`S to HX`s etc. just to get it right on the money.

For those of you that know how it is done some of these combos
require diffrent bottom and upper bearing sizes just to get the
exact clearance on the mains.

Anyone can build a motor, however not everyone can build a reliable
one. For the person whom started this thread and stated all the parts
on the motor on Ebay, a Callies crank is not a hardcore crank to say
the least, Crower, Bryant and Lunati are much better.
CP pistons are better than a JE piston, yes more $$ but the
people who were the pioneers of JE are the owners of CP Pistons.

Dont compare a crate motor to race motor, if you do, stay with the
crate becuase you dont know what it takes to make power.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

As far as the fuel injection, the intakes are EFI manifolds so it is obvious the seller has no idea about the benefits of fuel injection.
here is the link to the auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

That Cheif motor looks good...I would get those with carbs and aluminum heads for lake mich.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Chief engines look like a great deal. I was looking at this the other day and thought there are still some good marine engine values out there. This looks like a solid package and probably cranks nicely!


This looks like an engine/drive package that sells for the same price as the 525 EFI:

Crankshaft Horsepower.......... 625 HP
Displacement................... 540 CI
Bore........................... 4.500
Stroke......................... 4.250
Maximum RPM.................... 5200-5400 RPM
Maximum Torque................. 650 Ft/Lbs
Idle RPM in Neutral............ 1100 RPM
Compression Ratio.............. 9.4:1
Operating Temperature.......... 142F
Timing @ 4000 RPM.............. 34 Degrees
Firing Order................... 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Fuel Requirements.............. 93 Octane Minimum
Block.......................... Merlin III Cast Iron, GM Gen VI, Siamese Bore, Four Bolt Main
Crankshaft..................... Lunati .Forged 4340 Steel
Rods........................... Manley I Beam forged 4340 Steel
Pistons........................ JE Forged Alloy
Piston Rings................... Chrome Moly
Cylinder Heads................. C-N-C Ported Merlin VR Cast Iron, Rectangular Port
Valves - Intake................ Manley 2.300” Dia. Stainless Steel
Valves - Exhaust............... Manley 1.880” Dia. Inconel
Cam............................ Hydraulic Roller Tappet
Lifters........................ Hydraulic Roller
Pushrods....................... 3/8 Hydraulic Roller Type
Rocker Arms.................... Chief Full Roller
Carb........................... 950 cfm Holley
Intake......................... Aluminum Single Plane
Fuel Pump...................... Holley Dual Diaphragm
Exhaust System................. Stainless Marine Dominator
Oil Pump....................... High Volume
Ignition....................... MerCruiser Electronic Thunderbolt IV
Charging System................ 12 Volt/65 AMP
Alarm System................... Audio/Visual Water Temp, Oil Press.
Transmission................... MerCruiser Bravo System

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

It is good to be able to help yourself.
Here is a 522 ci BBC supercharged I assembled 8 years ago and it still performs well till this day.
Oliver billet rods, JE pistons, AFR prepared Merlin heads and so on. Nice parts, great machine work, carefully assembled in a shop where time is not a problem.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

Did you dyno the engine?
Just curious as I'm thinkin' about going 522 route with 420's,
Maybe Crane 651 cam.
Already have 502 with 588 HP NA.

Re: Why so much for marine motors?
 

No, The engine was not qualified on a dyno.
It did however boost performance from 61 mph stock, 420 hp trs drive.
To 82 mph, Huber trans, Mercruiser #3 Speedmaster. Checked with the same Stalker Pro radar gun.
The performance increase combined with the durability of this engine has been an ongoing pleasure to this day