Now I'm mad.
12-08-2004, 07:24 PM
#23
Registered
Re: Now I'm mad.
here is one that is more serious
HOLIDAY BLUES
Students threatened by Christmas?
ACLU warns of lawsuit unless principal censors celebration
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
Š 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
The Colorado ACLU is threatening to sue a school if the principal refuses to censor Christmas for its students.
In a joint letter with the Anti-Defamation League, the state American Civil Liberties Union alleged "Jewish students no longer feel safe or welcome" at the Elbert County Charter School in Elizabeth, Colo.
The Nov. 10 letter demands Principal Les Gray censor Christmas and insists the school "must take immediate steps to comply with the constitutional separation of church and state."
It insists the school must ban all references to Christmas in its annual holiday program, including secular songs such as "Jingle Bells."
"This is the same old ACLU ploy of fear, intimidation and disinformation," said Barry Arrington, the attorney representing the principal and the school.
Arrington, an ally of the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund, said the ACLU's "suggestion is outrageous and inflammatory."
"These scarcely veiled charges of anti-Semitism hurt the innocent and cheapen the painful experiences of those who suffer real bias," he said.
The Colorado ACLU did not return a call from WND seeking comment.
Arrington argues the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution.
"The truth is that no court has ever ruled that public schools must ban the singing of religious Christmas carols, and no court has ever held that celebrating Thanksgiving and Christmas as religious holidays requires recognition of all other religious holidays," he said. "The ACLU has a different vision for America and a different vision for Colorado than our founding fathers."
One family reportedly withdrew its children from the school because of Gray's refusal to censor Christmas. However, during a goodbye party, Arrington noted, one of the children took a piece of cake to the principal as a friendly gesture.
"That shows how 'unsafe' this child felt in the school," Arrington said. "This isn't about 'safety,' it's about extremist political views. How tragic that these organizations would use children as pawns in their political game."
A leading Jewish voice, Rabbi Daniel Lapin, president of Toward Tradition, said he is deeply disappointed at the Anti-Defamation League's role in the matter.
"The ACLU is already notorious for its rabid hostility toward America's Judeo-Christian tradition, but the Anti-Defamation League, originally founded to defend Jews, should know better" said Lapin, whose group is the nation's largest for building bridges between Jews and Christians.
The Anti-Defamation League, he said, has "defected from its original worthy mission and is now shamefully collaborating with secular fundamentalists."
"Almost all Jews recognize that America's Christian heritage is the main reason our country is not infected with the scourge of anti-Semitism seen in post-Christian Europe," Lapin said. "Most Jews resent the League's embarrassing and cynical attempt to shatter the atmosphere of mutual respect that has long characterized relations between America's Jews and Christians."
The Anti-Defamation's actions, he said, show it to have become "pitifully out of touch with reality" and "an obsolete relic in the Jewish community."
Related story:
Christmas in America becomes battleground
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor's note: "THE MYTH OF CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION" - the special November edition of WND's acclaimed monthly Whistleblower magazine - documents conclusively that the modern legal doctrine of "separation of church and state" is the work of activist judges, and has utterly no basis in the Constitution.
Subscribe to Whistleblower and receive 12 powerful monthly issues, beginning with "THE MYTH OF CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOLIDAY BLUES
Students threatened by Christmas?
ACLU warns of lawsuit unless principal censors celebration
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
Š 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
The Colorado ACLU is threatening to sue a school if the principal refuses to censor Christmas for its students.
In a joint letter with the Anti-Defamation League, the state American Civil Liberties Union alleged "Jewish students no longer feel safe or welcome" at the Elbert County Charter School in Elizabeth, Colo.
The Nov. 10 letter demands Principal Les Gray censor Christmas and insists the school "must take immediate steps to comply with the constitutional separation of church and state."
It insists the school must ban all references to Christmas in its annual holiday program, including secular songs such as "Jingle Bells."
"This is the same old ACLU ploy of fear, intimidation and disinformation," said Barry Arrington, the attorney representing the principal and the school.
Arrington, an ally of the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund, said the ACLU's "suggestion is outrageous and inflammatory."
"These scarcely veiled charges of anti-Semitism hurt the innocent and cheapen the painful experiences of those who suffer real bias," he said.
The Colorado ACLU did not return a call from WND seeking comment.
Arrington argues the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution.
"The truth is that no court has ever ruled that public schools must ban the singing of religious Christmas carols, and no court has ever held that celebrating Thanksgiving and Christmas as religious holidays requires recognition of all other religious holidays," he said. "The ACLU has a different vision for America and a different vision for Colorado than our founding fathers."
One family reportedly withdrew its children from the school because of Gray's refusal to censor Christmas. However, during a goodbye party, Arrington noted, one of the children took a piece of cake to the principal as a friendly gesture.
"That shows how 'unsafe' this child felt in the school," Arrington said. "This isn't about 'safety,' it's about extremist political views. How tragic that these organizations would use children as pawns in their political game."
A leading Jewish voice, Rabbi Daniel Lapin, president of Toward Tradition, said he is deeply disappointed at the Anti-Defamation League's role in the matter.
"The ACLU is already notorious for its rabid hostility toward America's Judeo-Christian tradition, but the Anti-Defamation League, originally founded to defend Jews, should know better" said Lapin, whose group is the nation's largest for building bridges between Jews and Christians.
The Anti-Defamation League, he said, has "defected from its original worthy mission and is now shamefully collaborating with secular fundamentalists."
"Almost all Jews recognize that America's Christian heritage is the main reason our country is not infected with the scourge of anti-Semitism seen in post-Christian Europe," Lapin said. "Most Jews resent the League's embarrassing and cynical attempt to shatter the atmosphere of mutual respect that has long characterized relations between America's Jews and Christians."
The Anti-Defamation's actions, he said, show it to have become "pitifully out of touch with reality" and "an obsolete relic in the Jewish community."
Related story:
Christmas in America becomes battleground
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor's note: "THE MYTH OF CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION" - the special November edition of WND's acclaimed monthly Whistleblower magazine - documents conclusively that the modern legal doctrine of "separation of church and state" is the work of activist judges, and has utterly no basis in the Constitution.
Subscribe to Whistleblower and receive 12 powerful monthly issues, beginning with "THE MYTH OF CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12-08-2004, 08:04 PM
#24
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Re: Now I'm mad.
Originally Posted by ScottB
Gimmi a frickin Break, I celebrate Christmas and love it. I have friends who celebrate Hanuka. Whatever you celebrate I don't care, have fun.
Put a fat ass Buddah on the Town Hall Doorstep on your Holiday, I won't be offended.
Put a fat ass Buddah on the Town Hall Doorstep on your Holiday, I won't be offended.
Last edited by frequentflyer; 12-08-2004 at 08:06 PM.
12-08-2004, 08:05 PM
#25
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Re: Now I'm mad.
Originally Posted by CAP071
we as americans were and always will be too busy working to make money. we go to work everyday. had we stayed home and protested many of these changes. they may not be in effect today. As we went to work. These friggin ***os were out protesting everything from gay marriage to killing unborn babies. They were the louder of the voices so they got thier way. 
12-08-2004, 08:09 PM
#26
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Re: Now I'm mad.
Hey Walrusman,
Don't get mad. Just do what I do. Everytime I see a dot head, I wish them Merry Christmas. If they don't like it and have a negative comment; I tell them to go back to India and LIVE IN A F*CKEN MUD HUT!
Have a nice day.
Don't get mad. Just do what I do. Everytime I see a dot head, I wish them Merry Christmas. If they don't like it and have a negative comment; I tell them to go back to India and LIVE IN A F*CKEN MUD HUT!
Have a nice day.
12-08-2004, 08:18 PM
#28
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Re: Now I'm mad.
Glad to see from all these posts that I'm not the only one who thinks the inmates are running the asylum! Let's see, the ACLU is after the Boy Scouts, the Pledge, anything religious, that Halloween celebrates the Satanical,Christmas ad nauseum. It's crazy. Not too many years ago, the only place someone with divergent views could be heard was our college campuses. Now it's just the opposite, someone might be offended. I've yet to hear of anyone refusing money because it says 'In God We Trust'. Like all of you, this nonsense is getting old.
12-08-2004, 08:31 PM
#30
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Re: Now I'm mad.
People dropping off holiday cards and packages at Tyler post offices who might have otherwise tossed some change into a familiar red kettle will have to go elsewhere this year.
Tyler post offices are no longer allowing the Christian charity The Salvation Army to place its holiday bell ringers and donation kettles at entrances, a Salvation Army spokeswoman confirmed.
Linda Edwards said the change took effect about two weeks ago. She said she thought it was prompted by a postal customer's complaint, but referred the question to Tyler-area postmaster Fred Arrambidez.
Arrambidez referred inquiries to Polly Gibbs, customer relations coordinator for the Dallas district of the U.S. Postal Service. She said Monday she was not immediately able to get information about the specific situation in Tyler.
"The (Tyler) post offices have had a no-solicitation policy for a while, but we (The Salvation Army) have been the exception," Ms. Edwards said.
U.S. Postal Service regulations available on the agency's Web site prohibit solicitation on post office property.
Ms. Edwards said The Salvation Army had kettles at three Tyler post offices: 2100 West Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard, 2627 South Broadway Ave. and 3320 Troup Hwy.
"The locations will be missed," she said. "They were very good locations for us, but we understand policies ... We're not angry at the post offices or anything like that. We're just grateful for all the years we've been able to ring there. They're a great bunch of people."
The Tyler post office decision comes after a decision this year by the Target Corporation to ban the bell ringers from its retail stores across the nation.
Target has had a no-solicitation policy and decided allowing The Salvation Army to operate at its stores would not be fair to other charities.
"It's a difficult spot to replace, but we've had a number of other stores and companies in the area that have pitched in to help out and fill that gap," Ms. Edwards said, estimating kettles at Target in Tyler have generated more than $10,000 in a holiday season.
She did not have access to numbers from the post office kettles, but said they generate "a number of thousands of dollars."
"They've always been very good bell locations for us," she said. "The only place I think anyone goes more than the post office during the holiday season is to the grocery store."
She said being barred from Target and the post offices "gives us a challenge in finding more creative ways to make up the differences by virtue of finding different locations or extending some hours."
The kettle drive is the charity's largest fundraising effort of the year. Last year The Salvation Army raised nearly $200,000 from kettles in Tyler, and it hopes to top that number this year.
As for whether a complaint about a bell ringer at the post office represents a cultural bellwether, Ms. Edwards said, "I don't know whether it's a change. We've always had your humbugs. Maybe it's a sign of the times, maybe people are a little more vocal about it, and the ones that are happy to see the bell ringers there, they may not be as vocal. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease."
She said the kettle drive is about 30 percent of the way toward its goal, about normal for this time in December.
Mark Collette covers Southern Smith and Upshur counties. He can be reached at 903.596.6303. e-mail: [email protected]
ŠTyler Morning Telegraph 2004
Tyler post offices are no longer allowing the Christian charity The Salvation Army to place its holiday bell ringers and donation kettles at entrances, a Salvation Army spokeswoman confirmed.
Linda Edwards said the change took effect about two weeks ago. She said she thought it was prompted by a postal customer's complaint, but referred the question to Tyler-area postmaster Fred Arrambidez.
Arrambidez referred inquiries to Polly Gibbs, customer relations coordinator for the Dallas district of the U.S. Postal Service. She said Monday she was not immediately able to get information about the specific situation in Tyler.
"The (Tyler) post offices have had a no-solicitation policy for a while, but we (The Salvation Army) have been the exception," Ms. Edwards said.
U.S. Postal Service regulations available on the agency's Web site prohibit solicitation on post office property.
Ms. Edwards said The Salvation Army had kettles at three Tyler post offices: 2100 West Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard, 2627 South Broadway Ave. and 3320 Troup Hwy.
"The locations will be missed," she said. "They were very good locations for us, but we understand policies ... We're not angry at the post offices or anything like that. We're just grateful for all the years we've been able to ring there. They're a great bunch of people."
The Tyler post office decision comes after a decision this year by the Target Corporation to ban the bell ringers from its retail stores across the nation.
Target has had a no-solicitation policy and decided allowing The Salvation Army to operate at its stores would not be fair to other charities.
"It's a difficult spot to replace, but we've had a number of other stores and companies in the area that have pitched in to help out and fill that gap," Ms. Edwards said, estimating kettles at Target in Tyler have generated more than $10,000 in a holiday season.
She did not have access to numbers from the post office kettles, but said they generate "a number of thousands of dollars."
"They've always been very good bell locations for us," she said. "The only place I think anyone goes more than the post office during the holiday season is to the grocery store."
She said being barred from Target and the post offices "gives us a challenge in finding more creative ways to make up the differences by virtue of finding different locations or extending some hours."
The kettle drive is the charity's largest fundraising effort of the year. Last year The Salvation Army raised nearly $200,000 from kettles in Tyler, and it hopes to top that number this year.
As for whether a complaint about a bell ringer at the post office represents a cultural bellwether, Ms. Edwards said, "I don't know whether it's a change. We've always had your humbugs. Maybe it's a sign of the times, maybe people are a little more vocal about it, and the ones that are happy to see the bell ringers there, they may not be as vocal. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease."
She said the kettle drive is about 30 percent of the way toward its goal, about normal for this time in December.
Mark Collette covers Southern Smith and Upshur counties. He can be reached at 903.596.6303. e-mail: [email protected]
ŠTyler Morning Telegraph 2004
