Re: Which camera to buy?
 

I was looking and comparing yesterday and a well known photographer I know that shoots alot of offshore race pic's, told me to go with the Canon EOS 20D. About $1500.00 for the body and about $1600.00 with a 18-55 Zoom. ????? He liked it much better than the Nikon ???? I still am leaning towards the Nikon tho. Dave

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Little more money you can get a 28/135 with IS and a 100/400 with IS (18/55 will not let you reach out and get the shots) which covers just about the whole rangr for taking photos of boats. Love my Canon stuff. :drink: Just my thoughts.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

I'm going to fry's today to test the difference between the FZ20 and FZ15...maybe I'll post the results later.... I read most of the manual so I should know sort of what I am doing.... I usually don't read the directions and most of the time I get by on my own without any help. :D

Ernie

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Supposed the FZ-20 is where they went to ED glass and that just means less barrrel distortion. Something you may or may not see as it occurs at full zoom. The FZ-20 does have a new 3rd generation CCD Panasonic calls it a Venus II engine. Big word for a chip.

What does the new ccd offer the previous? Mostly just a bit faster is all.

So you may not see a huge difference between an FZ-10 and FZ-15. I will do a cut and paste and a mini-comparisom of the three and see what we find in the next post.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Pictures from Steve's Test Site

Panasonic FZ-10 top left

FZ 15 top right

FZ-20 Bottom

Very close pictures. My observation is looking at the little white fence on the bottom left of the picture. The FZ10 is pretty sharp; the FZ-15 a bit less sharp; the FZ-20 white fence is sharp.

The FZ-10 and 15 are 4MP cameras. The FZ-20 5.3 MP

Supposedly the ED glass on the FZ-20 brought the performance up to where it has been touted as the best digital under a grand. The FZ 10 looks pretty darned good to me. Not sure why the FZ-15 is lagging a bit.

You will see more of a difference in blow-ups I am sure. But all all pretty decent; I can't say much other than I note a bit of sharpness in detail wil the FZ-20 is all.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

It bugs me that Canon has a lower quality lens and then some very good lenses. WIth Nikon you get topdrawer lenses in every case.

Here is the FZ-20 top left; Nikon D-70 top right and Canon 20D bottom.

Well the pictures were taken from somewhat different angles making it a bit harder to judge. I will only say the Nikon D-70 and Panasonic FZ-20 have more color saturation. The Canon has notably less. Is the Canon a bit less sharper on the white bottom left fence?? Possibly. Based on this comparison I would take a closer look at the 20D.

There is a reason why D-70's are the most selling DSLR in '04. I am not convinced unless you are nuts to get the Leica D 9 system that I would get any other DSLR but the D-70. I still maintain the FZ-20 can hold it's own.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

I am just going to keep using my large format stuff for a little while more. You know with the 10X12 negatives :eek: :eek: :D

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Steve's Test site Pics

Minolta A2 left; Panasonic FZ-20 right

The A2 costs $ 900 and the FZ-20 $500...you tell me... this is an easy one! :D

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Steve's Site test Pictures

Sony CD 350 Left and Panasonic Rt

Sony is a $ 350-400 camera.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

and how do you compare pics taken at different times? the cars, trees are different.. the flags are blowing different directions... i would assume you need to take them back to back to really compare them...?

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Conclusion. The only thing that comes close to Nikon D-70 DSLR is the Panasonic FZ series. Find one and show me a comparison to prove me otherwise and I would be happy to entertain your call. This is obviously a very objective conclusion on my behalf.

-Right now if I want a DSLR it's the D-70

-Want something with "big zoom" & cheaper but still very good; the FZ-20 then will please you.

I would not buy anything else as I think these tow cameras have CCD's that can deliver vivid fully saturated colors. That matter tremendously to me.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

They were not all taken on the same day. You can notice the palm trees before and after the hurricane that went through as the tops are 3/4th gone.

It still always comes out D-70 and FZ-20. There are lots of other pictures on Steve's site for each camera. There is a consistency for each camera and I looked at several pictures before deciding.

It's just my opinion is all.

...and Steve's and CNET's too. The FZ-20 as the best under a grand digital camera and the D-70 as the best DSLR are their opinions too. :drink:

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Now will you fix the picture of the Leica R 9 that you shattered yesterday? :p

Steve didn't test the R 9 becasue I hear Leica would make him buy it to test it. :D

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Hey maybe I can not bottom out but I sure can stretch the walls :D:D

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

I think I may have met someone you knew.... :D :D

Takes a 2x 4 nailed on to stay afloat and then you get stuck :D

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

...looks like a can of tuna :p

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Well it looks like Troutly and me got some good info out on digitals.

...oh...my take on Formulas??

...let's just say a 35' Formula with 496 H0's or 525's would work Santa!

..I haven't been good enough for a 38'er.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

[QUOTE=Troutly][COLOR=Blue]Hey Audio....hear that!? Hydro is calling your crank a can of tuna! LMAO!! :D


...ask any mermaid you happen to see....

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

A small point and shoot 35mm or digital back-up is always nice.

Don't laugh but this thing for the money is a fun little guy to have. But hard to get as it keeps selling out.

Has internal memory and can take 26 pictures at it's highest resolution which is decent for 4x6 pictures. It's a toy but great for a anyone from a kid to an adult who wants something super cheap.

http://www.happyshopperllc.com/catal...ils&itemID=815

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

I was asked for a recommendation for a small high performance digital.
I did some research and think a look at the Sony DCS-T1 is in order. You will pay for the reduced size but if you want a great picture with 5.1MP this is the one I think.

Sony on left; Panasonic FZ-20 on right
Nikon D-70 below.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Final shoot out.... Pictures from Steve's:

Nikon D-70 Top
Panasonic/Leica FZ-20 Bottom

Steve obviously took these in Florida..the Nikon shot was before the hurricane and the Panasonic shot with what's left of the palm trees after it went through . One is a cloudier day than the other. But conditions are close enough for what we are doing...which is speculating anyways.

My humble opinion...if I ever did see two picutres that were about the same... these two certainly fit the bill. Too close to call.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Panasonic's site show the FZ15 and FZ20 to have ED lenses... so my choice is between them. I have a digital movie camera, so the FZ15 not having sound doesn't bother me. The flash makes no difference to me, I could get a slave flash I guess if I really needed one, I have never used flashes before all my pictures are outdoors at boat races and pokerruns. The only difference to me is 4 and 5 megapixel.... will the 4 look good printing 8x10??? I went and used bothe camera's today and can't tell the difference... by the way the burst mode on these cameras is awesome...my wife even liked it.

here are the pictures... fz15 here
the flag view is hand held at 12x zoom

Ernie

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

this is the FZ15... the camera's were set exactally the same... images at 1280.... and I have never used them before so these are auto..

Ernie

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

I'm more confused now then ever between the stores and this board shopping for cameras :D

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Think they look good, the problem I have run into is being able to crop a subject and still maintain the quality for large prints. Just some input.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Pictures look very good in those huge buildings and shows the lens is very fast and the built in flash powerful. Adding a Sunpak 383 for a huge room like that would really light it up even more. The lens is very sharp.

The FZ-20 also has a feature of being able to save pictures uncompressed in a TIFF file. The D-70 can save in a RAW format. Now TIFF (RGB) and RAW are huge files (aprox. 25mb or so). They allow for tons of cropping before reducing to a file size for uploading or printing. the FZ-15 may only store in the compressed jpeg file mode. That is a huge difference if you do cropping.

A disadvantage of storing in TIFF on an FZ-20 is you can "only" get 60 pictures on my 1GB SD card. In the lightly compressed mode you get 400 pictures. The upside is a 60x 1GB card only costs $70.00 now.

I didn't know they went to Ed glass in the FZ-15 but I am sure you are right.

So if you need to do much cropping you have a reason to go with the FZ-20 instead of the FZ-15. That plus a redesigned ccd then are the differences I believe.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

So what were you looking for again.... :evilb:

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Panasonic includes ArcSoft software. I analyzed your pic and here is the reprint. Ever so slightly modified in lighting. :eek:

I did a crop job too...sorry for playing with your pic! :D

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Played with them a little in photoshop. Will probably always a Canon guy. :drink:

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Capo you start the best threads...sorry if I hijacked it off the planet.. :eek:

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

The Canon you have is very highly rated and you know what Canon lenses to buy. I admire Canon for having DSLR systems that are very affordable albeit they include middle of the road lenses not made in Japan on some.

Your point made earlier of having not to deal with a magnifier is a good one. But the fact the focusing unit is not on the camera at least on some models is a drawback on using third party lenses. Sigmas work great on Nikons as the focusing unit is on the body.

Right now as we speak Nikon is raking it in with the D-70. Any camera shop you call and ask about a dslr instantly says D-70.

Don't tell Troutly but when the price goes down a bit and it is expected to go down about
$ 150-200 and I can get a body for $ 700 I will have one...too :D

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

This is with the FZ-20 and the Canon TL-55 plus full digital zoom taken from about 1/4 of a mile away. So that would be like 860mm. Handheld with the lens stabilizer on.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Your right, tried the sigmas but never had much luck with them. I won't say a word to Troutly, will be interesting to see what the prices do after Christmas. Several of the Canons are just large and a pain to haul unless you have a shoot, Dind the 10d with a 28/105 pretty handy for taking for just snapshots. :drink:

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

As far as a 4MP vs a 5 MP... you will get a "photo quality" picture up to 8x10 with 4Mp and with 5 MP a "photo quality" picture up to 11x14.

If you need to do a lot of cropping and save in TIFF files the FZ-20 was the first with that feature. The other Panasonic cameras compress only. Before TIFF files I could not hold a candle to the D-70 in cropping. TIFF leveled the playing field a lot with the FZ-20 and it's competition. It's not too often the best "under a grand camera" costs only 500 bucks.

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

.....in mine you can't tell if it is a rack for sure or if she is bending over... :D

..I can now see the rack in yours if I look closely..

yup you win...and she is somebody i know too! :drink:

can you zoom in more please? :evilb:

...fyi taken with a Nikon 35mm and put on disk..who cares about cameras anymore....I am so done with this!! :eek:

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

This has been the best pi**ing contest I have seen in years Troutly. Everybody is confused...I went through a six pack of Bud...

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

This should prove who has the best zoom Troutly...I zoomed in on Reggie at the kilo run...you can see the 177mph pass blew the fibers out of his Toupe'.

I suppose you can beat that too??? :p

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

well I have to buy a camera and now, I was out driving around, Thought I wouldn'd see anything... there were about 7-8 offshore boats on the lake and the big Predator aluminum cat was out.. I stopped and talked him... there was also a 27 excalibur like ours, but with outboards... I missed a lot of good photo's today.... all these threads are driving me nuts... FZ15 has TIFF mode so I am going with it..... I already bought an extra batery

Ernie

just pressed the buy button....

pretty good deal.... $390.90 with 3 day shipping at Butterflyphoto

I'll get some "parts" for it after x-mas... hopefully the christmas pictures will be good

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

God damn it his women said that she would not tell him that!!!! :eek: :eek:

Re: Which camera to buy?
 

Then if you can get a good deal on an FZ-15 take it! :drink:

Should be around $375-400?

The best deal on the FZ-20 is $ 500 I think.