Boats bad investments???
 

Since there has been so much talk about boat loans, money, cash, etc, here is a topic.

Everybody says boats are terrible investments and that you should pay cash due to the depreciation factor. For starters, out of all the performance boaters I know, I dont know one that purchased the boat as an "investment".

Aside from boats requiring high maintenance, storage and fuel fees, which we all know isn't cheap. But I dont see how they are any better than the cars and trucks we drive.
For instance, lets pretend its 1990. You go out and buy a brand new Baja 250 sport. Loaded up the boat was 35k. You also go out and purchase a brand New Lincoln Town Car for 27-30k. Well, its 15 years later and you still have both. 1990 Lincoln town car, worth 1500 bucks in decent shape. 1990 Baja 250's in decent shape, 15-25k all day.

Sure the Baja costs a lot of money during the 15 years in gas, maintence, and storage, but you used it, just Like the Lincoln, gas, oil changes, etc.

In no way am I saying boats are good investments because they are not. I know first hand, the two boats Ive had have been money pits.

I just found out when looking thru some papers that my Liberator was just under 30k back in 87. In the Nada book, with my HP and equipment, its shows a High Retail Of 23k. I know realistically I wont get that, but its nice to look at.

What do you guys and gals think, is my reasoning making any sense, or am I just trying to talk myself into getting a new boat? :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Just buy the new boat :D :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

I've yet to see a hearse with a luggage rack!!!! Buy the boat!! :D :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

im not sure, but i am a bonds salesman in nyc. i would like to know if you would like to purchase a bond for the george washingin bridge can be bought or 100,000 and when it matures it will worth 50,000. so in my eyes your better off with my bond than a boat. ill save you money in the long run... just give me a call at

1-800-Mr. Wonderful

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Are you just auditioning this to run by your wife? :p

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Cuda, be prepared. Me and the fiance are thinking of going down to St pete beach in march. You offered me a ride last season but i left too early. I would love to bring my boat down for the two weeks with me, but I dont think its a good idea. Either way, meeting up for a drink would be nice. :drink:

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

you dont want to meet him, hell expect you to buy him drinks, dinner, and pay his rent... beware of this old man...

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

That sounds like Vegas math. I know a guy who used to go all the time and I'd ask him how he did. He'd say he broke even, because he took 3k to gamble with and came back with nothing, but he was expecting to lose it anyway. If he came back with $500, he won.

Anyway, the boat is an investment in sanity. Expensive to buy, store, maintain, run, insure, and worth every dollar that goes into it.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

If you're comparing a boat loan with a car loan, then a good boat is a far better investment.


1992 Mercedes 500SEL - $96,000 out the door.
Today: $14,000


1991 Formula 311 - $85,000 out the door.
Today: $40,000

So if you compare them, you only lost half the money on the boat. And most of the money on the car.
But you'll never hear me tell you to borrow money for a car, either.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

cars,trucks, boats, bikes.....whatever, none are investments unless you are buying things that you will never use and hopefully somebody will want later.... otherwise, they will all lose their value... finance your real estate, pay for your toys...

factor in total operating expenses versus usage and they come out a lot closer....

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

You're also overlooking a big factor in the hourly operating cost and overall usage in the same period of time. Figure 25,000 miles on the average car a year. A couple hundred hours on the boat, or trip wise, even if you're out every weekend for a 6 month boating season that still is only around 25 trips or so a summer. Now figure in what the boat costs for the time you're not using it in finance (where applicable), insurance, storage, and maintenance costs. That will skew it off the boat even more. :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Either way you are financing a depreciating asset..hence the current fiscal deficit our country is in, you simply cannot finance short term fun with long term payments. Back to the credit thing, I would bet the majority of people that are in financial problems pay for perishable things with credit, after its gone, the bill remains (excepting business expenses gas/oil food etc that are paid monthy per business)
However in comparing the car vs boat, you have to look at miles vs hours, the amount of miles on the car for 365 days per hours on boat. I agree with you in theory, but realistically they arent comperable... The car would usage would far outweigh the boat...Rob

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

I've moved to the other coast. I live in Deland, which is about 20 miles west of Daytona.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

I could have paid for my boat in cash when I purchased it for $65K, but I choose not to tie up the money in the boat. I used the money for an investment (property). I am financing the boat......I figured I would never have it long enough to pay it off (15yrs) so borrowing the money through a loan is the way to go for me. I send a payment every month and that's it. My money is well spent on property than the boat for investment purposes. :D

I also think a boat and a car are poor investments. They both depreciate like crazy. A car is purposeful (going to work, etc...) and a boat is leisurely (high maintenence)
Generally speaking, a car is a must, where a boat is not. I would rather buy property or the like and finance my boat and car.

Boats are not a necesity (okay maybe), and are expensive, but I've had some of the best times of my life boating. As long as I can afford to have a boat, I will have one and enjoy it.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Don't forget to factor in the potential of writing the interest off if the boat qualifies.

Not for everyone but a consideration in determining the actual cost and ROI.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Do you guys think there is a select few boats that will stop depriciating? For example a well maintained old 27 Magnum, a classic Donzi or in my case an 85 Cigarette 28 ss. I bought the boat in pretty good shape for what I believe is less than market value. I will continue to put money into the boat but I believe even in a few years when I sell it, I'll be able to sell it for more than I originally paid. Of course I wont get the money I put into it but I think the boat in very good, turn key, well maintained condition will not continue to depreciate. Is this just wishful thinking or is there some truth to this?

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Any hobby is expensive, but you can't put a price on what you get out of them.

Whether you finance a boat, pay cash for it, it does'nt really matter. If it's something you love to do and get enjoyment out of it then do it. 20, 30, 40, years from now, the memories and friends you've made, the time you've spent with your family will matter more than the money.

I've never looked back and said to myself if only I would'nt have went on that vacation, or bought that boat, or motorcycle and invested that money my bank account would be bigger than it is. There have on occasion however been times when I wished I would have tried something but did'nt.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

I was just getting ready to say this......I want to go boating, I work to be able to have toys, my debt ratio on home, truck, boat, etc is 22% of annual income. I don't work for the love of it, I work hard to be able to play hard.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

EXACTLY!! It's a second mortgage....another $10K in interest to write off!!
:D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

15-25K for a 1990 Baja?? If you'll buy that I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona I would like to show you :)

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

I would just add that there are very few hobbies ( if any ) that are considered a " good investment "......

Playing golf, fishing, surfing, etc...none returns an investment although very few are as expensive as boating ! :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Boats ..... investments....

Well from what I ear it's a lot cheaper than ex-wives as an investment...

and you can pound the hell out of a boat without buying dinner and all that crap.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Exactly!!

If you in any way even think about boating as being an investment you need to take some financial planning courses. There aren't many people that actually need a boat so for the rest of us boating is strictly for pleasure, you just have to decide how much your willing to spend on it.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

That Harvard education sure comes in handy now and then Wes!!!! :D:D:D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Somehow my father never thought so !! :rolleyes:

Like you, I have a talent for stating the obvious... :D :evilb:

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Obviously! :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

I was thinking the same thing.

Boating is entertainment. It costs period. I would recommend buying a boat that is a few years old. You can use it for a few years and still get a reasonable amount of money back.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Ok, here it is. How to be a millionaire in the boat business.

Start with $2 million and then get out as fast as you can.

(I love that one)

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

In Fred's case, having a boat saves him on his landscaping bill, he just uses the boat for a yard decoration! :D :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

2 happies day's in a boaters live is the day he buy's and the day he sells

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Personally , I think a boat is an okay investment, IF You can do the work on it yourself. I have NEVER sold a boat for less than I originally payed for it. Of course I have put money into them over the years or months or however long I have owned them , but on the whole it's nice to see them sell for more than your purchase price.

ps . I have owned at least 25 boats over the years... Tom

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

It's what we do, it's what we love, it's a good investment. Hard to put a number on something you love so much. In my book that's a good investment. My whole family looks foward to the weekends, that's a good( investment). I'm sure you see it that way.

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Ya boats are the worst investment.. Suck fuel , repair bills etc etc
But time spent on the water ...priceless

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Ok, it depends on what type of investment your talking about, if your talking about a financial investment you may be a few cards short of a full deck :eek: If your talking about an investment in the happiness pleasure of you, your family and friends than I don't know of anything better, well, maybe one thing but this is the wrong section for that :D :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Some people make good money on boats. Firstly, you have to move around the docks and marinas and know people. So that when there's a fire sale, you know about it on time. Then, you have to have cash in hand and I'm afraid you also have to be ruthless and offer ridiculously low amounts to people who you know are in financial distress. Then, you have to know your way around boats because when you offer an immediate low cash amount, it's usually "as is, where is" and there's no survey, no lifting out of water and no oil analysis... The second reason you need to be handy around a boat is because fire sale deals are very rarely boats in immaculate condition. Chances are costly maintenance has been dodged by an owner in financial difficulty. Things will need fixing and/or replacing, that's for sure. It's obviously cheaper if you can do it yourself while you're adding value to the boat. You also need to be a very flexible person and look at boats like a business opportunity, not like toys for your personal use. A fair bit of rational thinking is required which is not easy when you're looking at boats. You need to look at the marketability of that particular brand and model, not at whether you like it or not. If the marketability is good but you don't like it, resell it immediately. If you like it, keep it and its sale 2 or 3 years down the road can pay for maintenance and fuel. That's right, boating for free.

BTW, this is virtually impossible with new or very recent boats. You do not want to be around when that initial depreciation hits in the first 3 to 4 years. And most importantly, refrain from bragging to your friends what a fantastic deal you've made on a boat. Before long, the whole nation will know how much you paid for it and consequently, most potential buyers will know how much money you're looking to make on their backs. And no customer likes the feeling of that knowledge. So if you are asked, LIE!

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

:D :D :D

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

$139,000 in 97 for a 93 42 Fountain...$110,000 in upgrades/updates over the last 6 years= worth about $120,000 today, bad investment. :(

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

Yup ..I do this with all my toys .. I buy my snowmobiles in the off season from some guy who realized he has ten grand in toys that he cant use for 6 months and needs to remodel the kitchen for mumma or got laid off etc .. Ride em for a season or two then sell em for market ie you rode for free last year .. You can do the same with anything .. yes you have to do your own repairs / maintenance , this is a big expence for people without the skills ..
But finance a new rig so you can be upside down .. Ya you might be able to invest the cash and net the interest on your boat loan ..But why not be smart about your boat purchase and keep the money ..
I guess what im saying is if you realy want to pi$$ your money away , go buy a brand new got to have it ..for 240 payments ..

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

It's like alling a car or drinking beer an investment. Disposable income comes to mind. :p

Re: Boats bad investments???
 

True ..but limiting the rate at which you " dispose " of it is the key .. It is possible to not dispose of any of your income if you are practical about it ..