Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

its certainly unfortunate for the buyer but i fail to see how Mr. Cozzi did anything wrong.

he could go after the seller but thats probably a waste of time and money. in the end only the lawyers will make money.

nothing in the marine industry surprises me anymore :rolleyes:

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

When I had my Cig surveyed in December (Michigan NAMS/SAMS certified) nothing with engines included except general visuals. I paid a, different, certified mechanic $300+ just to do the leak down/compression tests and even that would not neccessarily show the types of discrepencies claimed.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Where's BGIII? He's usually posting on theses "Payton Place" threads. I think he's one of those guys with a big CB antenna on the 1974 4-door Chevy BelAir and a Purple Horny muffler. When he's home the internet takes the place of the CB radio,,,,,,,,,"breaker-breaker, good buddy".
Don't sweat it Ed. You can't keep everyone happy, but I think you've satisfied the majority of us.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

You guys are the best! I feel bad when stuff like this happens, but sometimes things are just beyond your control.

I think if I had noticed that the good running engine was a Gen VI and told the buyer about it being a later version of the port engine that it wouldn't have made any difference to him anyway. He was buying the boat so reasonably cheap that he would have never passed on this boat for that reason.

It's too bad because I really like this guy and his wife. When they came down here we all went out to dinner and had a great time.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Ed your reputation preceeds you ..and its as good as it gets IMHO.
Do you or "should you" as standard practice have the buyer or whomever uses your services ..sign a waiver ?

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Ed, I'll fax you my "contract" that I have people sign prior to me working on their car, as its hard for me to tell if a panel has been blended. I am not responsible for crappy paint that peels. as they go down the page, they must initial each spot to show that it has been read and sign at the bottom. I find it actually put them more at ease, because it addresses some of the concerns they may have and forgot to ask....


Rob

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Capo:
The block has a casting number in the rear, but it doesn't tell you what camshaft is installed in the engine.
Mercruiser installs a Crane cam in the HP500.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Why is the port engine S/N listed but starboard is "Unknown"? If I was the buyer I would have asked this question and maybe the issue would have surfaced then.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Good Question. Many times the S/N is smeared off the label that is attached to the flame arrestor. Sometimes I can find paperwork on the boat that gives me the numbers.

Yesterday I did a 75' Sunseeker Predator with twin 1200 hp MAN diesels. The port engine had a tag that was blank! Never stamped at the MAN factory!

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

LMAO... For what its worth, if I was to buy a boat in FL, I would trust Ed with a survey. If this charactor still owes you $$$, can you file for a mechanics lein?

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

when I bought my 2000 Nordic, I had a boat survey done, ($400.00), and then I had Archer Marine do a mechnical survey for an another 429.00) which was for the engines/drives and all the running gear. The boat surveyer didn't do engine leakdowns or anything like that.

I don't see how Ed did anything wrong?

What pissed me off about my experince is that I have 1 if not both 280s trim tabs sucking in water, (There was water in the pump reseviors) that was Obivous to see, and Archer Marine said "All Trim pumps are ok".
I'm still trying to fix the port tab leak.
MD

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

i've been painting in the collision biz 15+ years , how can you not tell a panel has been blended? we remove all hardware and belt mldgs etc. i'd have to say, i can easily tell if vehicle has been repaired , paint work ,etc , the easiest way to tell is base color texture , very hard to duplicte 100% , i.e.- base is grain heavy- grain fine , etc , clear texture. for a trained , certified professional , (like myself) very easy to pick out. :)

I only have two questions.......
 

......and I'm pretty sure I know the answer to the first one.

Why did it take 16 months for Just Perfect's owner to start complaining here about Ed ?
Maybe because after chasing this deadbeat for 16 months, Ed was starting to chase him a little harder for final payment.

Why has Just Perfect's post been allowed to sit in the Bad Business section for 3 days, without Ed's reply showing up yet ? I know the board gods have to check into the allegations to stop unfounded complaints, and I know it's not their real job to police the marina industry, but the post in GD has been quite polite, and Just Perfect hasn't bothered to show up here yet. Why not reply to Ed's version of the complaint here ?


Frozen water, no hockey, no football, and no golf till 4:00 pm, i've got all day... :D

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Maybe Scott Sumrall and Just Perfect have become friends!

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

It's pretty simple, I'm not in the body business and am not a painter, I manufacture and install 3M paint protection film on the fronts of cars.
I see cars coming from the factory that the hood is one color and the bumper is different usually the difference is from mass production where the bumpers and rest of cars are painted at differnt stations. Sometimes at the port or at dealers, the car gets a scratch and they have a company blend it. Unless it is over a certain amount it doesnt have to be disclosed to the consumer. There fore never having seen the car before and knowing its history, and having been burnt, I had to make the contract.
As I'm applying the film, I stretch it into position and then squeegee it out, In certain areas it takes a couple times, if a crappy paint job/blend has been done the film may/will peel the paint. That is what my contract protects me from. If it was done without the consumers knowledge then they have recourse with the dealer, not me. For installation pics anyone can go to my site and look in the gallery its www.proformauto.com.

Rob

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

My response to the original post in the Bad Business section is still not posted.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

I guess seeing the way it was handled here in GD, maybe they thought no reason too?

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Ed,

I'm sorry you find yourself in the middle of this. Unfortunately, it happens. You seem to have your i's dotted and t's crossed and I hope that you are able to present your case and "be done with it".

You have a good reputation on the board, and it's nice to see people standing behind you.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

It is called a USED BOAT for a reason!Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you do not. Ed Cozzi is a stand up guy who helped me with my Fountain when no one else would.He gets an A+ in my book.As far as the new owner,that sucks be mad at the previous owner, that is who Screwed you not Ed.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Like I said earlier:
If the starboard engine really is a 415 hp long-block with HP500 accessories, all that needs to done is to purchase the correct camshaft and rocker arms from Crane at a cost of around $500.00.
Trying to screw my insurance company for a $20,000 re-power is ridiculous.
The original owner DONATED this boat to a charitable organization for the tax write-off. He probably knew about the engines being different and didn't want to be bothered selling it retail.

Thank you all for the support.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

My question is. So this doesn't happen to me. Is there a stamping on the engine that says what it is? Not a tag or sticker that can be removed, but a stamping indicating a 415 from a 500 HP motor?

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Not that I know of.
Tomorrow I will ask Tommy from Chief Engines and report what he tells me.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

I would appreciate that. Because seriously I could be looking at boats with blackmotors painted blue. with out pulling them apart I was wondering about any stampings



Thanks

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Just for your own information, it's the bolt-on stuff that is painted blue. The blocks and heads are still black.
They use the same block, so the casting numbers will be the same.
If someone wants to pull this scam, then it's going to be very difficult to tell what cam is in the engine without pulling it out.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Ed has made an excellent point.

Those into muscle cars have known about clones for years now. It sometimes makes the difference between thousands of dollars or sale/no sale. With the prices of these boats being enhanced so much by the power it has, we should not be surprised that this goes on.

It sucks for sure and it's dishonest as hell.
Sometimes it's tough to detect that a crime is/has taken place when you believe that everyone is above board.

I have never met Mr. Cozzi (Hopefully that changes in a week:)), but honesty is a character that you can't fake on a regular basis. To me, he seems honest regularly.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Ed, you and I don't know each other, but we once spoke before I purchased my boat in Texas. I have heard nothing but positive remarks about you and your reputation. Based on what I have read, it appears you complied with your obligations and the buyer is attempting to repower on your tab. Perhaps a strong offense is your best defense here. Did you have a written agreement regarding the services you provided that are yet unpaid? If so, does it have an attorneys fees provision? If the phknlwyr (sorry Kevin) persists, and your carrier doesn't cover your defense, I will gladly donate my services to your defense. PM me with the information and we can discuss this further.

Frank

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

:confused: I know, whatzup with that?

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Damn Ed.... you need to get those x-ray specs repaired... and while you're at it.... fix that crystal ball too. I have a magic wand in my tool box that I pull out and wave over engines when the customer doesn't want to believe my diagnosis. I then ask them which mystical incantation I should recite to repair the problem without having to disassemble the engine.
There just happens to be people in this world that think by hook or crook they are going to get something for nothing. Looking at insurance companies to pay out for what is THEIR ignorance is foolhardy.
I've had customers come into my shop and PURPOSELY lie to me about the condition or symptoms of their car. They think in their feeble minds that if they minimize the symptoms... they can minimize the bill. Then they want a written firm price that they can then beat me over the head with. I'm with you Ed. I'd be so pissed off I'd be tempted to sue them for the balance due plus punitive damages. We know that won't happen. :mad:

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Just earlier today I had a guy ask me how long before the wet plywood in the transom would rot to the point he would have to repair it.
I consulted my crystal ball, but it said: "Check transom with X-ray vision."

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Four days since the Bad Business thread about me started.
When will my answer appear?

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

People NEED to own-up and take responsability for their OWN ACTIONS. PERIOD. POINT. BLANK!

Buy it right and leave room for mistakes!

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Is this is the response time for this board?
That would suck, I would be :mad: If it took that long to be able to respond to some $hit like this.

Sorry to hear about this.
Shows how well all the members of this board are appreciated and looked out for. :eek: $hit :eek:

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

No.
And you can't just look at a merc serial # and know what it is. You have to look it up to find out. The riveted on Merc tags can be changed also, if someone was trying to conceal something. My 525SC was factory sealed and didn't have a tag on it. It had the block stamped with the serial# above the timing cover. I looked for the serial # on the engine at least half a dozen times and never found it until I disassembled the engine.


Unless the guy payed for a complete engine check, then he shouldn't be whining. Sounds like he got a sweet deal on the boat anyway.

What did he expect???? that someone just donated a 100% perfect boat???? rather than sell it. The prior owner probably donated it because it would've been a hard sell if he disclosed the engine or didn't want to get sued if he didn't disclose it.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

5 days now, and your response is still not up on the bb sight.. Maybe someone should put up an OSO rant in that section...

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

See why the Bad Business forum isn't all that. Even OSO doesn't look in there... :rolleyes:

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Unless the guy payed for a complete engine check, then he shouldn't be whining. Sounds like he got a sweet deal on the boat anyway. (quote from thread)


I routinely do compression and leak-down test for customers.
I still would never have found this condition without exceeding the scope of the survey.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Fred-I posted to the BBF a couple of weeks ago and that post hasn't appeared. In fact, a post that I put in months ago never appeared! No reason has ever been given. :(

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Maybe OSO just isn't going to let Ed post a response. It isn't up yet. Five days and three full business days have gone by. If I were Ed, I might be ticked by now. :mad:

Ed, have you e-mailed OSO to see why your response isn't up??? :cool:

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Actually I've responded in this thread.

Maybe they are just really busy these days. Before when I posted about Scott Sumrall it took weeks sometimes.

Did you know Scott still hasn't paid for the survey?
Yes, you know, Scott Sumrall from West Monroe, Louisiana.
The insurance salesman that is selling the 30' Cigarette that he bought in California where he PAID for the survey.

Re: Ummm. Maybe you didn't see this...
 

Why isn't my response posted yet in Bad Business? It's coming up on a week now.

If it wasn't for this thread, people would think I'm hiding.