575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

A friend of mine had a bearing fail in the back of one of his blowers. The rotors had some very fine nicks/scrapes toward the rear, so we pulled the rear cover off (without draining the fluid) and a watery liquid came out. Smelled like gas! Anyway, one of the bearings was toast. Gee, wonder why...
Motor had a little over 200 hours on it.

I've never had a blower apart, but I assume there is a seal gone bad. Is this something common? Is it best to have someone rebuild the blower or does he need to search for one? Should the other one be checked? Where is a good blower shop?

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

There is a shop called "Darren Mayer Performance Engineering" that builds, and rebuilds blowers in Stevensville, Michigan (Southwestern Michigan) and I have heard he is pretty reasonable. Otherwise you will have to send your blowers out to California most likely and most of these blower shops want A LOT of $$$ just to tear them down and inspect them. Apparently Darren has a degree in areospace engineering, and can rebuild just about any blower you may have. His shop number is 269-428-5070.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Defenitly not a bad idea to have em gone through but fuel contamination in the blower lube is not uncommon at all and this is why the lube needs to be changed frequently.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Shah (of Iran?) Matt:
Matt if you are the shah, could you ease up a little on these gas prices............ :rolleyes:
Re the blower, which is a Merc/Weiand/Holley 256, was the rear fluid level checked or changed? If not, you buddy was heading for where he is. The gear oil can be changed without removing the blower by drawing it out with a squirt/spray bottle pump/tube, or similar device. The oil level should be checked (at least) every 25 hours and changed no less than every 100 hours, like the front reservoir.
The Holley supercharger repair shop was in Springfield, TN (near Holley's HQ in Bowling Green, KY). The Blower Shop has purchased all the parts from Holley and is now doing their (Holley's) repair and warranty work in California. Web site www.theblowershop.com .
I had my 256 freshened up by them this winter. Good work, don't get in a hurry.......probably slower now that we're into the season.
Good luck,
Steve

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Shah Mat

That is a common problem with the Merc/Weiand blowers with the rear oil reservoir. Like Steve said the oil needs to be checked around 25 hrs and should be replaced at least once every season depending on use and if contaminated from fuel. A small amount of fuel in the oil is normal since the air and fuel charge from the supercharger will pressurize the the oil reservoir. For the amount of fuel you found means it probably lost a seal first. Unfortunatley they did not use a heat treated shaft in the rotors and the seals usually wear a groove in the shaft. We have seen this in as little as 30 hrs on the supercharger. If the rotors have not hit each other real hard and are not damaged, it can be repaired. We can machine the rotor shafts and install a hardend sleeve on the seal surface. If the rotors are damaged I am sorry to say there are no replacement rotors for that supercharger. That style has been discontinued and the "new Holley rotors" do not work with those bearing plates.

Darren from D.M.P.E. is a great guy and does quality work, so give him a call or give us a call and we can give you an idea on the cost for repair. I can tell you right now we are running around 3 weeks on repairs.

If the rotors are damaged beyond repair, we are now making a replacement supercharger for the Merc 575. We modify our 250 Billet Polished Supercharger to fit the Merc manifold and the Merc snout. We strip and polish your snout and swing arm and install it on the new supercharger.

Ron Hayes
The Blower Shop

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Thanks All,
I will forward this to him.

I think the manual says to change the oil at 200hrs, which is right where this motor is. However, the manual doesn say that you have to rebuild the thing if you go over 200hrs. :p

The 25 hr check and 100hr change is a great idea.

The rotors did get some minor scrapes in them, I think there're reusable as is. This guy has a great ear and shut the motor down as soon as he felt/heard something wrong. I remember him saying over the winter he wanted to make something to siphon the oil out to change it.


I wish I could lower the gas prices. This summer is gonna hurt......... I keep saying; "I wish I had a boat with twins, but I'm glad I have a single." :drink:

Shah Mat is Persian, meaning "The King Is Dead." It is where the english term Checkmate came from.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Ron,
You all did my B&M 250 around 225 hours ago. I have changed the oil in the front snout several times. The rear is the bearing and no gearcase with oil design. I think you said something about a bearing upgrade was done at the time since this was the first time that it had ever been serviced.

What was done to the bearings in the back cover? When do I need to send it in again?

Should I pop the back cover off and re grease the bearings in back? It seems it was a beoch to do because the cover would not go back on easly due to the shaft hrydolocking the seal, any tips if I need to re-grease and which grease should I use?

Thanks,
TimT.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

TIM

It is hard to put the rear plate back on because it does try to hydraulic the seal. We are now drilling the rear bearing plate and installing 1/8" pipe plugs to allow the air out after the rotors are installed. You can do this yourself if you have access to a drill press. Or if you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself, you can remove the rear plate and send it to us. We can then machine the rear plate and re-pack or replace the rear bearings and seals for you. Then you can re-install the plate and put the plugs in. If you do send us the plate, make sure you save or send us the gaskets between the case and bearing plate. The thickness is critical since it controls the rear clearance between the rotor and case. We use a lithium base grease in the rear bearings. So any of the general purpose lithium grease will work.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Tim,

The up-grade that we do on the B&M blowers is the billet bearing retainers. The stock retainer was a stamped steel retainer that was weak and tends to crack around the bolt hole. They also only used a 6-32 screw where we machine it for a 10-32. As far as the bearings themself there is not an up-grade. We might also have machined the shafts for the hardened sleeves on the seal surface. Most of those blowers have did not have heat treated shafts and the seal would wear a groove into the shaft.

Ron

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

So assuming no unusual wear at how many hours does the Blower need refreshed? Would just changing the rear bearings be sufficient at x hours as long as the telfon seals are still good?

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Shah Mat,

If you send your blowers out to California you are going to at least pay right around $300 for shipping alone. I know of a guy who has a 250 size supercharger that needed repair. He called a few well known supercharger manufacture'rs out in California and if I remember correctly they both told him they wanted about $1000 just to tear them down and give you a recommendation. That's A LOT of SMACK to be laying down for a tear down---especially before parts and labor. My friend utlimately sent them back to Holley and they rebuilt his supercharger for about $550----and that was WITH shipping! He now has his other blower at Darren Mayer's shop for a rebuild----his shop is only 70 miles away which helps too.

I know you get what you pay for-------and not that the well known shops don't do quality work, and cost depends on what is needed for repairs, but I would call around as my friend did. Darren Mayer's shop would at least be worth a phone call. It was kind for BBQ/Ron to speak on Darren's behalf. Whatever you do I hope it goes well for you.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Tim,

There really is not a good answer on how offen a blower needs to be rebuilt. We rebuild a lot of B&M blowers every year. Most of them have between 200-500 hrs. Usually with this aomount of hrs they need main shaft and coupler, and some times gears. I have seen alot of blowers need major work with less then 100 hrs but then I see a lot with stardard rebuild only on blowers that have not been serviced for 10 years. The main key to longevity of the supercharger is maintaining the proper oil level in the gear case. The majority of the blower failures we see are due to low oil. The rear bearings on the B&M blowers is typically not the problem on the blower failure. The roller bearing design works really well, that is why we use that same design on our 192 and 250 blowers. I would say that only 1 out of 100 B&M blowers we rebuild have rear bearing problems. The Weiand blowers however with the single row bearings both front and rear in an oil bath is a different story. They tend to be a 50/50 on the front or rear bearing failure. Again this is due to the lack of oil or fuel contaminated oil. If the oil was checked at least once a year and replaced if contaminated then the majority of the wear would go away.

The other hard part of answering you question is this. If the blower is serviced say every 2-4 years depending on the use and how hard you are on the parts, then you can prevent a major blower failure that can be expensive to repair. Once you lose a bearing and the rotors start to hit each other, they usually need to be replaced. So you are looking at $400-$500 for a standard rebuild or $1000-$1500 if it needs hard parts. Now that parts are harder to find for the B&M and Weiand blowers the repair price is only going to go up. You have to remember that most of the replcement parts have been discontinued. We are really seeing it now with the 420 mega blower. Rotors are no longer availiable so they can not be repaired if the rotor are ruined. So it has to be a judgment call on your end. Do you service the blower every couple of years as more of a preventative measure or try to get 5-10 years and hope you catch it before a bearing fails.

Kaama

I do not know which companies your friend called out here, but we do not charge for inspection and tear down. Most standard rebuilds are $265 labor and $145 for the bearing and seal kit. If the blower needs hard parts then yes it could be up in the $1000 range. I don't know any of the other blower manufactures out here that charge that kind of money for tear down either. Most do not charge or might have a 1 hr min shop rate for inspection. I would think that the $1000 number was more of a quote then just an inspection charge.

I do agree with you that people should shop around and check with some other manufactures. I do not know what Darren charges on the rebuilds for the B&M blowers so I can't say if he is a better deal. All I know is that he does quality work and have not heard anything bad about him. I have no problem refering anyone to him. If you can save on the freight, then why not use someone closer. Even if Darren is more expensive, use who you feel more comfortable with. If you are comparing price, apples to apples, then I think most of the blower companies are in the same ball park on price. That is why I think you should use who you feel the most comfortable with.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

BBQ70

Would it be practical to drill a hole in the front cover of the 575 blower and thread it for a 1/8" pipe plug to make for easy oil change?

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Another question... if the thing takes a dump and needs a major rebuild whats a good replacement and or upgrade?

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

zahndok,

An oil drain plug would be helpful especially if you want to change the oil while the supercharger is on the motor. You probably wont get all the oil out, but you can get the majority out. Just make sure you pull the front cover off when you machine it as not to get any aluminum chips in the gear case. Don't take offense to that last comment, it is nothing personal. You would be surprised at some of the things I have seen people do, and they just say "I did not know"

Ron

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Dano,

Which blower are you refering to?

If it is a 420 blower we move them into an 8-71 blower. This does require a manifold and drive kit as well. If it was an 8mm drive you can use your belt and pulleys.

If it is a 250 B&M blower, we can put our 250 rotors and gears in them.

The 256 Weiand or Merc 575, we modify our 250 to fit their manifold and snout. We no longer put our 250 rotors in the Weiand blowers because the single row bearings can not support the rotor.

We are in the process of designing a replacement 177 blower to replace the Merc 525 blowers. We are not sure if we are going to make it the same size (177 cu in) or use our 192 case and rotor and modify it for the 177 manifold.

Any of the other size Holley blowers (142/144, 174/177) as long as they are their new style, replacement parts are avaliable. Holley has changed the rotor, gear, and bearing design, so you can not interchange the old with the new. The only way to use their new style rotors is to change the bearing plates as well. This just gets expensive since you are only using your original case. The Weiand and B&M pin center to center was different, and I believe Holley used the Weiand pattern, which means they will not fit the B&M case. I will have to verify that because I do not rember exactly which way it was.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Can some one tell us what oil to use in Merc's 575? I am doing ours soon and need to know. Thanx.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

BBQ70,
Yes I was refering to the 575 motors. I'll be refreshening and looking for ideas.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Weiand used a standard 80-90 wt gear oil.

Any good quality gear oil with a gl-5 rating will work.

We however now only use Red Line Heavy Shock Proof oil in the Merc 525 and 575 blowers.

Ron
The Blower Shop

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Thanx.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

I'm the guy KAAMA was referring to as the friend that called the two big-name blower shops in January 2004 for quotes on a B&M 250 rebuild. I can assure you that the quotes from both shops was indeed what KAAMA said and that's why I elected to have Holley do the rebuild.
I've always heard good things about both TBS and BDS and have no doubt that had I picked either of these shops I would have gotten top-shelf work. I was not, however, willing to drop that kind of money on an open-end quote for my B&M 250.
Just to make sure there's no misunderstanding here, I would highly recommend either TBS or BDS to anyone looking for quality workmanship.
Dave Ritter

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

bbq70 can your billet 250 blower make more power than the stock merc 575 weiand blower?

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Dave,

I only commented because as i read KAAMA said it was for tear down and evaluation only. As quoted by KAAMA

"He called a few well known supercharger manufacture'rs out in California and if I remember correctly they both told him they wanted about $1000 just to tear them down and give you a recommendation. That's A LOT of SMACK to be laying down for a tear down---especially before parts and labor"

That makes it sound to me like we charge a lot for the tear down. I was only trying to clarify that it was a quote for the repair not a charge for tear down and evaluation only. You call it a quote but KAAMA did not, there is a big difference. If my comment came across wrong, then please forgive me. Like I said i was only trying to clarify that it was a quote. Anyways, I am glad Holley was able to take care of you on the rebuild, and it looks like it was a good price as well.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

I have been wondering whether with the blower shop 250 replacement you would expect an increase or decrease in performance . I have always understood the 575 blower to be a 256. Don't know if "6" is insignificant.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Plums,

Our blower is not really going to make much of a power difference over the stock Merc 575. We have had some of our customers report about .5 to 1 pound of boost increase at the same drive ratio, while other say that the boost is the same. Our blower is going to be more durrable then the stock blower. It will allow you to spin the blower faster without having some of the problems we have seen with the stock blower. Our blower uses a double row bearing in the front and a roller bearing in the rear. We also use heat treated rotor shafts and heat treated and ground gears.

Ron

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Ron,
Chime in here, because this is an observation and question that I have regarding the Weiand 256. In general I have found it to be a more durable blower than the B&M/Holley 250. Is that because the 256 has a rear oil reservoir? Is it because it has 8 mounting points VS 4 for the Holley, for less case distortion? There are several diffeneces between the 2, another being.
The 256 has "machine fit" rotors. The Holley has teflon tipped rotors. Wouldn't anyone's teflon tipped rotor supercharger seal better, and therefore be more efficient (deliver more boost per RPM)? However, the teflon tipped superchargers that I have run, lost power as the teflon seals began to wear, and seemed to need re-tefloning every season.
Conversely, the machine fit rotors of the 256 should continue to deliver the same amount of boost, because there are no teflon seals to wear out, even though it would seem to be less efficient from the start. I figured that was one of the reasons Mercury chose this supercharger for this waranteed motor.
One less headache (re-tefloning).
I asked you guys what else we could do to improve my 256 while you were freshing it up, and I believe one of your options was to teflon seal my rotors, which I passed on for the above reason. By the way, the blower seems to be performing very well.
Regards,
Steve

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Steve,

The Weiand mounting flang (8 bolts on the side of the case) vs. the B&M bolting through the bearing plates is much stronger and does not allow the blower to flex as much. This was the good design, however the Weiand only uses single row bearing in the front and rear, which is not as good as the B&M blowers that use a double row bearing in the front and roller bearings in the rear.

As far as the teflon OD strip. Normal wear on the teflon strips is .003"-.004" on the rotor to case clearance. This should not wear any more unless you have twist in the case or back fire the supercharger. The bottom clearance on a non teflon OD blower should be between .007"-.009". So the teflon stripped blower should be a little better then the non teflon blower. The problem comes in when the non teflon blower is larger then the .009" number. This is where we would recommend putting a teflon strip in to tighten up the clearance. So to try and answer your question, yes the teflon blower will "wear out" the strip and you will see a slight performance drop, but this is usually minimal. And the teflon strip will be tighter under normal wear then the non teflon blower. The non teflon blower like the Weiand 256 should in therory not lose performance unless you have a failure inside the supercharger. There are pros and cons both ways and it was more of the manufactures preference. All Weiand blowers were non teflon blowers and all of B&M blowers were teflon stripped. They both used them as selling points, but it all came down to how they wanted to build their units.

I personally do not think most people will see the differnce between .004" clearance of the teflon to the .007 clearance of the non teflon blower. When most of the performance loss is noticed is when the blower was back fired hard enough to open the bottom clearance around .010 or more. We have installed teflon in the Weiand blowers when the bottom was at .007 to start with the customer found no real increase. However, when we have installed teflon in blowers where the bottom clearance started at .012 or more, they did see a boost increase. So as long as the clearances are within spec to start with, it will be good either way.

Hope this helps
Ron

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

zahndok,

The rotor diameter and lenght are the same in all three blowers. Well acually the weiand rotor is around .025" smaller then the B&M. The 256 is just the name/number that Weiand gave it's supercharger to be different then the B&M blower. If you notice all their blowers have differnt names like the Weiand 142 vs. the B&M 144 or the Weiand 177 vs. the B&M 174 blower. Basically they are the same displacement, at least so close that their would be no performance difference due to displacement. Any performance differences are in the rotor profile not displacement.

Ron

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

Thanks BBQ70.
One last question, Sorry for being dense.
So were all the 575 blowers Wieand 256 style or were some of the late model 575 blowers really B&M 250 style. Mine is an 02 after Holley owned everything and I believe says Holley on the blower case. Just trying to determine if mine might be more like the B & M style inside as far as bearings and stripping.

I think I'm going to go ahead and remove the front cover and mod it for a drain plug this weekend. Might as well if I remove the cover to change the oil. Would at least give me a better place to suck the oil from next time.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

The 575 blowers went from the Weiand style to the new Holley style. They still use the same single row bearing in the front but went to a sealed single row bearing in the rear. The sealed rear design does not have an oil reservor. They used the bearing plate castings from the B&M line. On the new style, Holley does heat treat the seal surface which is a good thing.

Ron

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

I have a 2002 Fountain with twin 575sci's. Do some of the later models actually have B&M blowers? Mine has the W stamped in the case which would lead me to believe it is a 256. I have 100 hours on the motors. What should I do to lessen the possibilties of problems. I just had the blowers servciced. How do I check the oil level. Do you recommend any type of synthetic oil for the superchargers?

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

All of the 575 blowers use the Weiand 256 case. If the front gear cover has a W on the front then it is the original Weiand Style. The new style uses the same case but the B&M style bearing plates and front cover. The bearing plates are machined different however to the new Holley specs which are not the same as Weiand or B&M. When Holley purchased Weaind and B&M they incorporated both styles into one. They also re designed the rotor shafts and gears and they are no longer interchangable with the old style Weiand or B&M blowers. There is no longer a B&M blower line, it is now a Holley blower.

Almost all the 575 blowers were built by Holley since Holley purchased Weiand right after Mercury develop the 575 package. Only the first few proto type blowers were built by the original Weiand that were used for test and development for Mercury's approval. The production schedule came after the purchase of Weiand.

If you have the Weiand style blower, then there is a dip stick on top of the front cover to check the oil level. In the rear it also runs an oil bath and has a 1/4" pipe plug in the rear cover which is the oil level. If you have the Holley style, then there is a sight glass in the front cover with a fill plug in the top to put the oil in. The rear uses a sealed bearing so there is no oil to check.

We recomend the Red line Heavy shock proof oil which is a synthetic oil. The Merc Hi Perf drive oil is also a good oil to use. Weiand used a standard 80w-90 gear oil like Valvoline or Stay Lube that had a GL-5 rating.

Re: 575 Blower Bearing Problems
 

BBQ70,

Thanks for the great reply.

Since mine have the W stamped in the front, could they still have been built after Weiand was bought?
I have a pipe plug on the top-front of my blowers, not a dipstick. I attached a picture for you to see my blowers so I can find out exactly what I've got.

Dave

Hey BBQ70, sorry to revive such an old thread, but maybe you can help.

Has anybody tried to machine the rear case on a B&M to install a grease zerk fitting? This way I'd be able to re-grease the rear needle bearings, without having to dis-assemble my blowers from the engines. Would this have any negative effects?

Thanks!

Julian