Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

As promised I would post bi-weekly interesting articles. This is a great one to begin with.


I copied this post from the Consumer Reports site, I thought it was very interesting and that others here would also like to read it.



"First, let me say that I am a retired Mobil employee, so you can decide to ignore me if you have already made up your mind that Industry is evil. I was a Research Chemist at Mobil's main Applied R&D laboratory for over 34 years, including the time when Mobil developed Mobil 1. That was not my project, but I knew many of the chemists and engineers involved.

This product was created at our lab as an outgrowth of Mobil's leadership aviation lubricants. Most jet aircraft then used (and probably still do use) Mobiljet lubricants for their engines. While most automotive engines don't operate at the high temperatures of jet engines, heavy service will cause conventional motor oils to decompose and form sludge, a black paste that coats the inside of an engine to the point that it blocks the oil passages and can cause the engine to self-destruct. That's why oil is drained (while hot!), instead of merely "topped off."

The automotive version of Mobiljet was the talk of the lab, because it easily passed all tests required for brand-new multigrade oil even after 75,000 miles of use. As Mobil was a pretty conservative company, the marketing people planned to claim a drain interval of only 25,000 miles. But finally management decided that such a recommendation would contradict the car manufacturer's requirements, therefore effectively transferring warranty responsibility to Mobil.
So the fact that Mobil 1 was not marketed with an extended drain interval doesn't imply a lack of confidence in the product, but simply an aversion to litigation.

By the way, I saw the results of one of the more recent formulations of the product run on a very severe test against a conventional oil. The conventional oil, after the equivalent of 25,000 miles, had deposited about 1/2" of sludge, having the consistency of cold black butter, in the oil pan. The Mobil 1 product, after 250,000 miles equivalent, left its engine's oil pan looking nearly factory new. We chemists get excited about things like that!

I use Mobil 1 in my cars, keeping to the drain interval in my car owner's manual (7,500 miles, NOT 3,000) until the warranty period is over, then change oil and filter once a year. The way I drive doesn't tax the oil, but my cars do age well. I avoid the nuisance of up to 3 oil changes per year. My net cost is about the same, but I waste less oil.

If I had a performance car, especially with a turbosupercharged engine, I'd definitely use a synthetic lubricant, as heat buildup after engine shutoff, when coolant and oil flow cease, can destroy conventional oil and form nasty carbon deposits in the turbo's bearings.Robert J. Kobrin, Ph.D."

Non-believers...listening?? :D



Why use a synthetic like Mobil-1?....peace of mind..sea below! :D

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

Interesting, with the new cars telling you when to change your oil, I trieda a synthetic, got twice the mileage before the light came on about 7,500 miles.

On my mercedes, it went almost 14k miles. I thought the sender might be broken.

On my dodge sprinters, mercedes diesel, they use mobil 1 and recommend a 10k oil change, and thats a diesel.

CM

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

Oil change sensors are cool.. :D

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

Since you are so knowlegable, how does the sensor work ?

Im under the impression it senses a change in the viscosity of the oil.

Why doesnt the govt make them mandatory, want that save alot of oil, no more worthless oil changes.

CM

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

I was over on bob's oil site and looking at the merc oil flow study:

Mobile 1 filter flows well @ 10 psi 8.1 oz

Wix filter flows average @ 10 psi 9.1 oz

K&N filter flows well @ 10 psi 14.7 oz

Merc filter flows very good to excellent @ 10 psi 14.8 oz

The Mobile 1 flows very poorly compared to a merc filter. This means in the 3000 rpm range you are going into bypass. Some of your oil is not being filtered. Why is the M! rated higher when the wix will outflow it? Is this marketing?

The K&N only flows well when it is within a hair of the Merc's numbers. I think the K&N is a excellent filter and much under rated.

Why would anyone choose a m1 filter over a merc or K&N unless you run your boat at a low rpm. Why not use a racing filter that will allow your oil to be filtered at the rpm range you normally run? It is great to have super filtration at idle but I don't want to be running in buy pass when my boat is on plane?

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

Oil Change sensors,

I have been told that oil change sensors, track number of starts engine rpms and mileage to come up with a oil change light signal. When I had a short comute to work my gm light would come on at about 4000 miles. now that I have a 35 mile drive it comes on about 5500.

I would like to hear the facts on this.

Always mobil-1 so thats not a factor.

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

great article :D

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

If I read this right ....the merc filter flows best but what about filter quality ? A fine screen is going to flow better than a fine paper element ...just an example ...

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

The Merc filter is 17+ microns large...that's way big....I posted an article from Bob's site that showed that the Mobil-1 and Amsoil SD are two of the the best trapping and flowing filters. A/C was nest best. It was the "oil filter study".

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

The oil sensor looks like it really is not a "sensor" but a computer calculator. How could a sensor really keep track of additive composition; contaminants; base quality; condensation; etc?? :eek:

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

I got slammed on BITOG for running my M1 filter... :mad:

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

"Independent Oil Filter Study"
Mobil 1
M1-301
"Like the Champ filter, this filter is made by Champion Avaition Labs. However, it uses a unique end plate and a thicker can that make it the strongest filter available for wide distribution retail sale. It also uses a synthetic media, which improves filtration and flow. I'm happy to say that this filter is not a fake. It is definitely a unique design.

It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is very strong. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up".

While there is lots of good info on Bob's (BITOG) site; many times you will see a manufacturer or dealer post info that favors their own personal interests. Everything there is not "gospel". I have learned you have to read and then research.

The Mobil-1 is a very highly regarded filter; some of Bob's tests are done in a rudimentary fashion I have noticed as well. It is "backyard testing". Testing oil filter flow and filtration must be done on various oils at various temperatures and a test he did was at room temp. only and then at low pressures.

I just read a thread yesterday on Bob's saying to use a
Mobil-1 filter on a C-6 Corvette.
Always use several sources. :D

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

I don't really know if this is a redudant arguement or if we're splittin' hairs here.

I was in Auto Zone today and wrote down some info that I found on a box of a Mobil-1 synthetic fiber content, high efficiency oil filter, part # M1-601 (HP-6 size long filter). On the it said it has "one of the highest single-pass ratings available with 98% partical removal at 10-20 microns.

On the box of the K&N oil filter's that I use it says it filters down 8-10 microns vs the Merc's 17 microns and if it flows more than some of these other filters such as the Mobil-1 (if what was posted is true), then I would say K&N is one of the top filters---right?

Anyone know what the advantage is of a long size filter vs the standard length sized kind???

Anyway, from what I am reading, it sounds like the K&N filter is the better choice in filters from what is listed above by "flyfast" in post #5. K&N is super close in flow rate, but has the Merc beat in filtration of micron size (Merc 17 microns), as well as beating the Mobil-1's 10-20 microns, and out flowing it as well.

I have been using the K&N filter on my marine engines, and they cost about $17 each. However, I am willing to change if there is a better flowing, better filter oil filter out there. If you notice in the picture below you will see that I have the K&N oil filters hanging from my KE Thermofilters of both of my engines that just came off the dyno. The KE thermofilters I have on my engines require the larger "HP-6" size oil filter.

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

Check this out bro:

Manufacturer "Sticker Names"
AC Delco- AC Delco

Allied Signal- Fram, X2, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Mopar Severe Duty

Baldwin- Baldwin, Amsoil

Champion Labs-Mobil 1 A Champion Labs filter, but constructed differently. Also supposedly K and N and defunct AC Delco Proguard

Purolator Purolator-, Pure One, Castrol MaxPro, Penske, Pro Line, Powerflo, Mopar, Motorcraft

Wix- Wix, Napa Gold and Silver, Car Quest, Auto Extra

From the information above they suggest the K & N filter is made by Mobil which has Champion Aviation labs make their filters. :D ...funny eh? :drink: SO sice the K&N and
Mobil-1 may be the same or close they are great guy! :D

You can't beat a Mobil-1 or Amsoil SD filter. Periord. They filter great and they flow great. :p


Independent SAE lab test results:

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

I have read the test results and I have tried a few filters both on cars, the truck and the boat. On the boat I have tried a fram, bosch, mobil 1, K&N and merc. I can tell you that a K&N and Mobil 1 are not the same filter. The Mobil 1 and the bosch are very close in term of flow.

The K&N as bob's oil web site says is a high flow filter. You can see this both on the gage after a hard run and by smelling the engine. With the K&N your engine will smell like alot of oil is running around inside.

For some reason the merc engineers spec calls for a high flow or racing filter on merc motors. Marine motors burn dirty. With a high flow filter you get the filtering when the motor is working the hardest. A car or low flow filter may filter finer but will buypass at high rpm.

The amsoil may be a better filter but I have not tried it. One year I did try amsoil grease on one axle of my boat trailer and mobile 1 grease on the other axle. The next year when I repacked the bearings I found the amsoil grease to have held up very well. Amsoil was clearly the better grease.

I have tried semi synthetic and synthetic oil a few times. I am looking forward to trying some of the heavier base stock synthetic oil. The only complaint that i have with 40 wt dino oil is that it takes forever to pump out of the boat motor.

Try some of the different filters. I have bob's the oil guy numbers to be very accurate.

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

Sounds like we should include the K & N filter what are the part numbers for the tall and the short filters?

If you are using a 40wt dino it could slow down oil flow through the filter as a multi-vis synthetic will flow easier. I called Mobil and they feel their oil filters are best suited to the use with synthetic oils. Additionally, their tests showed it to be a high flow and high volume filter at high pressures and good for HP applications.

How about posting the page and link to Bob's new oil filter data. He previously said the Amsoil SD filter "walked on water" and the Mobil-1 was very close. Why the sudden change of heart?

I trust an SAE 3rd party test with more sophisticated equipment over some of his backyard testings. Also, i find Bob's site members can't agree on many topics. One day it's Amsoil then another day it's Redline...so I look at the data and make my own conclusions. We don't always agree. But that's life.

SAE tests showed the Mobil-1 filter to have a 93% efficiency on 1st pass without bypassing at full pressure. The K & N is in the same ballpark and it is made by the company who makes the Mobil-1 filter.

They say nothing filters a higher volume over time than cellulose filters. They are very open and free flowing.

We are splitting hairs. :D

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

What are the bennefits of a tall filter vs a standard length filter?---better flow? Better filtering? or what? thanks

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

A tall filter with greater capacity means more filter area which should mean more flow and greater life.

Look at the big rig filters. Air, Oil or fuel.

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

On all our race boats we used to run the Fram racing filters, they have a huge hole in them.

CM

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

From bob's website the mobile 1 flows 8.1 at 10 psi. The K&N flows 14.7 at 10 psi. This is about 80% more flow. This is a big number. Of course you will only notice the difference on the guage at a low idle speed. If your filter goes into bypass 80% latter or 3000 rpm vs 5400 rpm this is huge.

Something that I don't understand is why a synthetic oil will flow better at temperature. I don't doubt that a dino 30 wt at temp will flow like a 10 wt oil. If a synthetic will flow better through a fine filter then it will also flow faster from the bearing surfaces in your motor. I want a oil that will maintain the 30 wt film on the bearings at temp and speed.

You know the engineers at merc are pretty lazy. Alot of things are done for cost rather than to make a better product. If there was no need for a high flow filter merc would have just had car filters repainted black. Why did merc spend the time and money to come up with a unique filter?

I know most people think the K&N is made by champion. I use the champion aircraft filters that have the champion name on them. The K&N has a different 1" nut attached to the bottom from the aircraft filter. They may be made both made from champion but they have a different housing.

What flow does the sae test on the mobile 1 filter show it to be by passing?
I only use the tall filters. I have no info on the short ones.

Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
 

Maybe the K&N shows more flow due to being in a bypass mode in this test? Nothing that traps to that level can flow that much I am told.

Want more flow and filtration? You need a dual stage filter set-up.