Fast fuel injection
 

Can someone email me a good working file on a 540, I have something quagmired in my setup that won't allow my boat to run right, it dynoed fine, but doesn't want to run well in the boat. I am running a 540 with a Procharger and have something awry, would like to compare mine to someone else's, to see where i have made a mistake. It appears to be in the acceleration enrichment tables somewher, the boat takes off then lays down. If I pepper the throttle back and forth it comes on strong to a certain point, the plugs look to be tan on porcelain, a little black down inside, but nothing terribly rich.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

Are you running a wide band 02? have you done any data logs? have you saved your current calibrations in a file? the motor has more load on it in the boat at low end. Unless you find someone running the exact combination as you,engine, blower, boost, drive gears, prop, boat. Don't borrow a calibration map. It's probably in the VE table, but it could be A/F ratio, map or tps enrichment.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

OK here is the update, i do have WBO and it is stuck on 15.94 right now never moves, so I don't know what is causing that. The motor was tuned with WBO and BSFC on a dyno and it ran like a top, same fuel system, same computer. The VE table is close because I saved it off the dyno. The AE fuel tables don't know about, althought the one that is saved worked well on the dyno. What are your opinions as to why it tries to run when I run the throttle back and forth, not getting enough fuel or too much fuel, that is the 20 million dollar Q&A at this point. With a carb it would be too lean and your are working the accelerator pump, have had this problem before, on fuel injection I can't make sense of it. I was leaning toward something in the spark system, but after changing plugs, ignition box, and coil it is still no better. I am now leaning toward fuel issues, maybe the pump is laying down under a load when I pull on it. i will have to work to verify because my gauge is still the old carbureted psi from the original Procharger setup 0 to 15. The gauge I use is under the hatch at this point. It revs like a SOB and sounds right, but falters under a load. Turbojack has a very similar motor to mine in the same boat, I don't know what hp his is making, mine made 1100 hp and 1100 tq for a huge power band, holding 1000 hp or more from 4700 to 6100 with the peak of 1092 on the last pull at 5800. Tq is 4000 to 5500 with peak of 1122. We saw 1125 on pull 5, had trouble with belt slipping above 6000. Don't really need above that anyway.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

15.94 reading can be to rich, to lean, or dead. Did you try watching the VE table on the laptop when this is happening? I would think you would see it jumping back and forth between the boxes that need attention.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

The bullseye follows the path of boost versus RPM like it is supposed to but I don't know what you mean about identifying the ones that need attention. How does it tell you on the screen that which boxes need attention. It always looks like a red bullseye to me. We marked each box with a red dot as the motor was loaded on the dyno and we read BSFC for that box and then leaned or richened each individual box accordingly, just like you would with a WBOS in the boat. i watch that VE table all the time shile trying to figure this problem out. 15.94 must mean this one is dead for some reason, but it did this before, quit working for a while and then started again. Thanks for the input. Turbojack sent me his file and mine is very close so I am pretty sure it's not the fuel program, his motor and mine are very similar, same size motor, injectors, heads. headers, and boost.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

JS,
I can send you my old map(s) if you need. (548ci w/m3 and 7lbs. )
Sounds like your WB took a crap.
Set your correction limits to +5% (and be careful). It may be throwing fuel at it when reading the 15.94 and drowning it.
Can you send me a log? I should be able to tell from that.
Dave
[email protected]

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

Dave I figured the same thing and turned my closed loop off, because my target A/F ratios were much lower. I actually used your files to compare to mine in the beginning two years ago, that was a great help.I lost your original file I had when my computer took a crash, but I had modified versions of it, to start with on the dyno and we fine tuned it till it ran well. I was way too rich when we started, killing the motor with fuel. What is odd is that nothing has changed in the program or motor since the dyno and it ran like a top. I will send you a file I am using, you may be able to look thru it and pick out some inconsistencies. I compared mine to Turbojack's yesterday and they were very close. I am leaning toward a fuel issue, like running out of fuel, pickup problem, fuel filter problem, starving the motor for fuel. I will check all this this evening. Thanks for your offer to help, that is what makes this board great.
John

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

Your O2 sensor probably got wet and broke. That happen to me and forced the engine in to thinking it was lean and dump extra fuel in. Does your O2 senor always read the same? Even at an idle? Take out your O2 senor and see if it has salt on it. Turn the O2 sensor off and try and run. But don't leave it this way for more then a test run. If the O2 sensor is bad you need to get one from FAST and down load the new matched disc into your ECU. Then you can check and make sure you are running the correct A/F ratio. My guess is that you have reversion and the O2 sensor will keep breaking unless you change something. Possible cures; Raise your idle, install Shot Gun exhaust Flaps, Dry Exhaust, ect..

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

As I read this & your email I want to say you might first boost reference your regulator. When going from vacuum to boost with the fuel pressure not increasing may be causing the lean condition.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

I appreciate all your feedback so far. I have boost referenced the regulator and it may little or no difference at this point. I spoke with Gary form the boatd last night for an hour and he helped with accelerator enrichment tables, having some great input, feedback, and insight. I will try the updated program with hsi changes and see what happens today. Also I found that I had a fuse try to burn in the fuse holder that is the power supply wire to the fuel pump. Kind of makes me wonder about that. Pulled fuel filter and changing that today. If all this doesn't get me there I am going to a 5 gallon fuel cell strapped in the side funnel of my boat with clean fresh gas, which is the same as the dyno. I also found that my WBO is carboned up, will clean that with Brake Clean, that may be causing it to get stuck on 15.94 and staying there. I do have a dry exhaust all the way to the transom, my Lightning setup dumps 1/2 inch from the exhaust tips, shouldn't be any reversion. The angle thru the transom is fairly steep as well. I do appreciate the input GEOO. I will update with more info as I get it with these changes. Again I appreciate all you guys and you thoughts.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

In looking at your fuel table I am concerned it is too lean. I know the table I got from NordicFlame flame is way richer. I have included JS's table here. Anyone else with input on this.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

Here is my A/F table. This is what I had gotten from Dave a few years ago.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

That looks to be very, very lean across the board :eek:
It's OK to have a somewhat lean cruise with a lot of timing as in my map but you can't carry that into boost by any means.
The second map has run flawless for several years at ~7-8lbs and never left a black transom :drink:
Also, you "must" use a very large gauge (10ga) wire going to the fuel pump.
Better richen her up or it's going to be a long summer :(
Call if you need,
Dave

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

I did make a change from what you have/had. In the upper Kpa it was at 11:1 (around 10-11 lbs of boost) & I was getting a black transom. I leaned down to 11.5 & changed my VE table & black transom went away.

There is thread on OSO going now about dyno run with procharger & fuel injection & they have at 11.5 in upper range

Dyno results at Crockett Marine

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

TJ, I was never brave enough to run it up to 10-11 lbs :D

Also if I remember right, Dustin said that the FAST stuff runs actually .5 richer than it shows on their high dollar test equipment.

I'll look and see what I have in the new owners program. I'm still pretty intimate with the motor.

The only thing I have whining now is me...too slow!!!!(for now ;o)

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

Sutphen,
Always try to get within 3% and also the "rate of change" can be slowed way down to avoid any abrupt changes once your there. Also, the correction limits if set properly will not allow this to happen. Mine are set to a 5% percent limit (in the lean direction) which will still allow it to adjust for any variances that boats seem to experience.

It's in the hands of the programmer :eek:

Dave

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

Fellas you all were basically correct the motor was too lean and stumbling. I spoke a long time with Gary from the board Tuesday night, there is a real trick to the Accelerator enrichment tables and that was problem #1, he straightened those out while we were on the phone. I took it out for a test last night, before I did that Ichanged the fuel filter and also found I had a fuse inline to the fuel pump that was getting hot. I temporarily took it out of the system and I am going to rewire with new #10. i think it was not making a good connectionin that rubber fuse holder. I could tell that right off idle it was immediately better but still not right, keep in mind with the AE Map AE parameter @120 it is not long before the the boost pushes up past where no more AE fuel is added. So I added fuel trim and richened the table across the board 3%, for the first time since the dyno it actaully came up on plane on its own. That felt great to be headed in the right direction. So I stopped and added more fuel in about the same amount and sure enough even better, it would now pull to about 4000 with my 1.26 gear and 32 pitch loading hard on it. Slight amount of trim and the thing really started pulling sweet. :drink: Now I still have a wall at 4000 :( , so I have to add fuel trim above that to finish it out. It still has a small stumble at right off idle. I pretty much ceased popping and cracking, plugs were a dark tan at this point, but these things were loaded up from all the wackiness before, so bought new plugs last nite. WBO is still not working after cleaning with Brake Clean, it was pretty sooty. I am almost sure it is not getting wet, my exhaust is dry for 24 inches behind the WBO and dumps at the transom.
I can only figure that the motor on the dyno was moving thru the RPM band so quickly that it did not have time to go lean, because I am back to where I was in the VE table above 4000 before I went to the dyno and it was puking black smoke. Instead of 600 RPM/sec in the boat it's more like 200RPM per sec or something like that.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

1st. I would get a good working O2 sensor before you go any further and melt down the new motor since I am almost sure you are way lean on the big end. I say that before I look at your AE table. Comparing that to mine you look about right on the big end. (same injectors, same fuel pressure, basic same motor)

On O2 sensor you might need to order a new one. There are a number of ones you can not get without going thru FAST. I am not brave enought to spend the money ($$) on getting one from supply house & then finding out I need to get the one from fast. I know dave had tried another one & it did not work.

Below is where JS was last week & where I was last week on VE tables. Mine is first.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

TJ I will send you my new file with the Accelerator enrichment tables modified by Gary. Basically all the accelerator enrichment lines have to be in a slight uptrend except the TPS postion table, that one was significantly different from you table TJ, you might want to look at that.

Re: Fast fuel injection
 

With some help from some great input from this site, i am hoping that most of the issues are solved. Plan on tuning with a WBO this weekend, weather permitting. Motor is running a tad on the rich side with the files that I have but, running with WBO will quickly correct that. The fuel pump is rock steady when leaning hard on the fuel, so I think that is a nonissue at this point. I would have never believed three weeks ago that this motor needed so much more fuel than what it did on the dyno, what a learning experience. Will no better how to dyno future motors, realted to using them in a boat. Definitely the acceleration has to move slower thru the RPM band on the dyno to emulate real world scenario. Will update thread after hopefully having a successful trip to the water Saturday and Sunday. Thanks for all the feedback and input.
John