ITS plumbing question
 

My boat came with ITS but only one engine has a pump.

I would like there to be a pump on the second engine so that if power is lost on one motor, steering can still be operational.

I already have both pumps and they will feed off of one reservoir but I am unsure how to plumb the two together. For instance to I need a proportioning controller?

Any diagrams would be very helpful.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Nobody has added a second pump in this application? Any words of wisdom appreciated :D

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Latham sells a special valve- so the steering is running always on the engine you start first

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Thank you! I thought someone might know something

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

The ITS has the one-way check valves needed for twin pump installation included in the secondary connection block, the block that the pump and cooler lines connect to. If you only have one pump now, the installer probably didn't bolt on the secondary block for the second engine. It comes with every ITS, so the builder/installer would/should have one. You will still need a common reservoir kit which Latham or another reputable steering manufacturer can help you with.
The pump valve block that Latham and others sell just has check valves in the ports that the pump pressure lines connect to, just like the ITS block(s) have. Basically you are teeing the pump lines together but you need the check valves to keep oil from flowing back through a pump that isn't running. Then the return line is teed back to go through both engine coolers and to the reservoirs. Then the reservoirs have to be teed back together at the caps to a common reservoir which should be higher than the engine reservoirs.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

I am switching to the High end pumps from CP Performance that do not have there own reservoirs. You desribe my Fountain's system. Any changes for no reservoirs on the pumps?

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

some line some fluid ,a couple of rags and away you go

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

You could try running from the coolers to the reservoir and then connect the reservoir to each pump, but the length and size of the hose between the reservoir and the pump is critical. It needs to be "very" free flowing to keep the pump from cavitating. That's why the kits usually leave the reservoirs (such as on the Merc pumps with separate reservoirs) in the system because they are close to the pump. Give your steering manufacturer a call. They may have recomendations.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

If I understand you correctly it would look like this but with 1 reservoir for each pump?

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

This is the pump. The pressure fitting is a size 10, the return is a size 6. hope that is sufficient.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

The basics are right. I will try to find an ITS installation manual page that shows the circuit and the block connections. The check valves you show are already available in the standard ITS installation in the "secondary" connection block that the current pump outlet line connects to. That is unless the installer didn't use the secondary connection block. Hard to explain without pictures of the pieces. One other thing I would avoid is the tee connection for the 2 pumps from the reservoir. That would mean when both pumps are running twice as much fluid has to be pulled through that fitting connection at the reservoir.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Falcon;

The only thing I see resembling a block is on the transom plate itself and I think it is a distribution block. I also have a fountain with latham steering. It runs one reservoir to the caps of the integral pump reservoir. It also has some kind of proportioning block pumbed in the system.

Seems simple enough to have a second reservoir though. I will have to Tee the return line to two different reservoirs. Would that overfill one reservoir if that pump was not drawing as much?

If you are able to show me a better way with merc parts I am all ears. :D:D

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Sounds like they didn't use the secondary connector block, some don't. I would look into a twin pump kit from Latham, Marine Machine, CP, etc. They include the extra reservoir, caps for the engine reservoirs (which it doesn't sound like you have), and the check valves or block. Did you know that you really don't need the high output pump that you show if you go to a twin pump system?

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

I did not know that, That is what I have to work with. I want to avoid losing pressure if one engine goes down, that is why I want two.

I will look into the twin pump kit.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Some want the twin pump to help with high volume steering setups such as a with a twin MC Six setup and, to a lesser extent, a twin ITS setup. Really the ITS may be fine with a single standard pump. By the way, this is mainly to help with steering at idle speeds. Instead of twin pumps to help with steering at idle speeds some prefer one higher volume power steering pumps like the one you show from CP. The disadvantage to this is the loss of power if your ps engine goes down. Twin standard pumps should help with both problems, but at a disadvantage in complexity of the reservoir setup.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

I forgot to add one more thing. A twin pump system should have #8 size lines between the helm and the pumps and coolers. The R & L lines can stay the same. At the higher flow rates you can have too much no load pressure in the "pump" circuit creating slightly more hp loss, higher ps fluid temps, etc.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

The lines are already size 10 on the pressure side and 8 on the return. But the real restriction is the factory plumbing block and the prebent steel hose ends that plug into that block. An entirely new distribution block would have to be engineered and fabricated.

Talked to Pedro at Marine Machine. They plumb it like the sketch but with a huge reservoir that has baffles to prevent puking on shut down.

I have to ask here. should I stick to a single pump? I like the redundancy and equal draw on power from each engine.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Do your current pump and cooler lines (the ones with 90 degree bends in them) connect to the "distribution" block? If not, you do not have the secondary block I was talking about and your pump and cooler lines are connected directly to the lines that go to the helm. The only changes necessary for a twin pump system are on the pressure, return, and reservoir lines. The main R & L connection block on the ITS transoms should remain. I just thought I would clarify this, Pedro (Marine Machine), probably just meant the "pump/cooler" connection block that I mentioned earlier. I have to find a diagram or picture of this somewhere! It's really simple, just hard to describe.

The "puking" he is talking about is usually caused by air in the system. There is some minor level change from line expansion/contraction, but more is cause by compression/expansion of air in system (compresses under pressure, expands when engine is shut off, pushing oil back to the reservoir).

It's unusual to have #10 lines(not fittings), especially if it was only a single pump system. Basically if the line will be seeing double the usual flow (after the tee on the pump lines, before teeing back to the coolers on the return) you should have the larger lines. Larger lines don't hurt unless the pressure rating is a problem (larger lines of the same construction can't handle as much pressure).

Pedro at MM or Latham should be able to help you get the right parts. Still avoid the tee on the reservoir to pump connections. Hook the reservoirs up direct if possible.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Falcon;

You were right, the pump lines are smaller. THe blue lines are to the helm and back. The black rubber lines are to the pump. Why would a larger hose size help if it still has to flow through those small fittings in the distribution block?

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Ok, you do have the pump connection block at least on one transom assembly. Now picture the same block and pump connections on your second engine. Then lines that go to the helm (the 2 right angle lines on the bottom left) go to a common tee connection. What's important is that from the tee connections to the helm that the lines and fittings are #8. At that point the lines and fittings are handling twice the flow. Do you see the black cap on the fitting under the pump pressure line? That's the one way check valve. The other 2 are relief valves for severe side impact loads.

Do you have both parts of the block on the other drive, with the extra connections open or capped off?

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

This is what is on the other drive but the pump only plumbs into the first block pictured in post #19. The rubber lines with the factory bent steel fittins are the only lines running to the pump.

Now that you see what I have on the transom, will my sketched layout work?

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Falcon??

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Sorry I didn't get back sooner.

The basics of your sketch are right. The main difference is the pump connection block. If you can get the other pump connection block for the second drive, all you need is the right tee connections between them and the helm. If you find that it's too difficult or costly to get the second ITS pump connection block, you might want to consider taking off the one for the first drive and go with tees and check valves (already in the ITS pump connect block). Remember that the connections for the dual pump setups using the ITS are really the same, just where are the tee connections and check valves. Merc was trying to make it easier by keeping the standard pump and cooler lines normally used with the internal cable steering.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Are you saying with an additional connection block, my sktched layout works and without one is doesn't?

Adding a connection block to the second transom plate doesn't sound difficult, would each block have it's own pump and reservoir?

Would i just leave the two lines now connecting the blocks to keep the system in sync?

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Here is a diagram of what a dual pump ITS can look like. I am not much of an artist. I did forget the filter(s) that should go between the ITS block and the tee on the output line from the ITS block to the tee. Hope this clarifies what I am talking about. I believe there is a drawing of this in the ITS installation manual, although you probably didn't get it from the boat builder.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Actually, that is a pretty good sketch. No the builder di not give me a manual. Do you have the part # for the second connection block I need?

Do you sell those?

BTW; Thanks :D:D:drink

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

I would give your boat builder a call (Fountain?) and see if they can send you the block. They had to remove it, and probably remove one every time they do a twin ITS install. They probably throw them away! I will try to find the part#, but I think it's for the complete assembly, not just the part you want.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Seeing how the two connection blocks are connected, is there a way to keep the helm lines as they are and route the pump lines like your sketch?
(I tried e-mailing this question)

Note how the pump and helm lines are on the starboard connection block and the blue #8 lines connecto over to the port block, If possible I would like to leave the helm lines alone.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

ttt

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

You could get some tees that go into the bottom of the stbd pump connect block to get the lines over to the port pump connect block. What might be simpler is to tee the P & T lines somewhere between Merc pump connect blocks and the helm, then go from the tees to each individual block. (That's what my sketch shows). It does get a little crowded back there. The main thing that the Merc pump/cooler connect block does is let you keep the standard pump and cooler lines as well as incorporate the check valves.
From the pictures it looks like you have reuseable hose ends. That might make it easier to shorten the helm P & T lines to separate tees. If you are very careful you could make it look very tidy. I would get someone involved familiar with hydraulic lines. You don't want to make a mess or worse.

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Do you make house calls? :D:D

Re: ITS plumbing question
 

Too bad you aren't close by, I would probably take a closer look at it for you. With some help from a local hydraulic supply shop or Latham-MM-IMCO-CP you should be able to get more input on what you need. The difficult part is doing a nice rigging job with the parts.