Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

New Member here! (just paid yesterday)

I just bought a 1989 four winns liberator.
It is a complete project boat!!!!
Needs new stringers, transom, engines, interior, etc....

currently running twin omc 350's (270hp)
king cobra outdrives
stainless 14-1/2 x 19 props(left is counter)

Does anyone know how to upgrade the ignition when you have omc's electronic shift assist???? I'm rebuilding both engines from the ground up, haven't decided on messing with the 350's or strokin' it yet but I want about 400hp per side.money is an issue (I'm married)

Any help is greatly appreciated!!!!


high and dry in the mile high.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Had a Liberator, my best advice stay with the stock ignition. I replaced mine and was chasing shifting into gear gremlins the remander of my ownership.....
If I were to do it all over I'd stay with the stock ignition, I didn't gain any noticable performance gain just shifting problems and spark knock which burned the valves. The stock system on mine a had a built in knock sensor system, your should also. Good Luck.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Please dont take this the wrong way.
Are you sure you want to do this project if money
is an issue?? The engines are one thing,but transom,
interior & stringers are another.
The dollers add up quick when you are doing that
kind of work. Just from experiance,I redid my 91,32
Fountain, Paint,dash,interior,guages,exhaust & misc.
Didnt have to touch engines,let alone transom &
stringers. What I did set me back 25k.All my labor
except for paint.You've gotta really love the boat as
you cant ever come close to recouping that kind of'
ching in an older boat.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

I had an '88 Liberator with a single 460 for 7 years...great boat but wanted twins. Sorry to say , epeek is right. Two new engines could set you back what the boat is worth unless you do ALL the work yourself. Hopefully you got the boat for a song and a dance so your not into it for very much to begin with.

BTW , welcome to OSO and Good Luck :D

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Good luck with your project. Worked on many Liberators, good, nice riding boat. Not going to be the fastest boat around but should hold up good in rough water. I agree with sticking with stock ignition, I have some used OMC parts if you need anything let me know.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Good luck with your project and welcome to OSO. :drink:

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

welcome to oso. we just finished redoing a 1990 42 cig revolution, 3 engines gauges panels re gel-coat interior gimbles and a bunch of other miscellaneous......it took a year, a lot of time drivng back and forth, a lot of calls, and mostly a lot of $$$$ but the boat was still a 15 year old boat no matterhow much money we put into it, the boat looks awesome but id never go thru a project like it again...

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Stay With Your Current Ignition Omc Cobras Dont Like Electronic Ignition

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

I can see you having an easy 50k invested in boat that will be worth half that when you're finished.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

I'm re-doing a 28 Cigarette and it's gonna be bad azz but I'm spending a truckload on it. If you have the time and skill to do it yourself, it might not be too bad but I have no time so it is hard to get things done. I'm dropping it off at Lightning Bay Marine soon and telling them to finish it and send me the bill. I could have bought a new Baja with the money I've spent.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Guys thanks for the info on sticking with stock ignition.
this isn't my first boat resto and I am capable and going to do all work myself!!! (except interior -great guy here will do the whole interior including carpet for 2K and obviously shipping out machine work on blocks.
As of today the transom is already replaced along with the main engine stringers. I've wet-sanded the hull to restore the color- it looks awesome-will post pics as I go.
One engine is together and running and both drives are ok
I'm only redoing the seals in the drives for prevention sake and I would be foolish not to build both motors at the same time.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

One more thing,

the liberator has below waterline side exhaust. I was told I need to stick with a marine cam because of possibly sucking water in the exhaust does anyone know about this???
Obviously a cam is where I could get some juice!!

Thx Jon

oh yea, complete boat, all parts, nice tandem trailer............
$2,500

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

You probably have Cobras... not kings, they came with the 460. Cobras came with the 350s.

If you really have to do stringers, transom, the interior, and engines...
throw the boat in the trash and sell the trailer for 2700.

Pocket the 200 bucks, take the wife to dinner, and wait until you can spend 15k on a solid boat that doesn't need transom, stringer, interior.

You are gonna put a thousand man hours and more money than the boat is worth... then nobody will buy it because it has OMCs.

Also... if you do get it on the water... if it starts to shift hard or you suspect that the Electronic Shift Assist module is not dropping rpms during shifting as it should, stop using the boat until you can get it diagnosed/replaced.

Don't do a cam. Enough cam to make a difference will require other mods.
You won't see the HP that you dream of because you need to keep those engines stock.
The good news is that you won't blow a Cobra with 270 horsepower.


Just an FYI... I am currently selling a sweet 26 footer with a new interior, looks and runs great. Loaded, with a nice trailer. Ready to go.
Nobody will give me 15 grand for it. It has cobras. I like em fine. The world thinks merc is the only show in town. (They are wrong, but nobody is ever gonna buy your boat.)

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

You could sell the drives and the blocks for more than 2500.
This is the only way that you will ever make out.

The hull is not worth stringers, transom, interior.

Don't want to pee on your dream... but it needed to be said.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Dam Fund....you didn't pee on his dream, looks like you took a big fat DUMP on it. :eek: :D

BTW: I agree with Fund, I bought a boat in Nov. that was "ready to run" and I still spent the entire winter fixing it like I wanted.
If you truely enjoy these huge projects then good luck and...are you for hire?????

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

[QUOTE=t500hps]Dam Fund....you didn't pee on his dream, looks like you took a big fat DUMP on it. :eek: :D

QUOTE]

:eek:

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Wow!!! :D
You guys are so positive and uplifting! Fund I know your and omc guy and when shifting right they are a great drive. Like I said this isn't my first resto project and It probably isn't as bad as I make it sound. I'll have around 15K in the boat when done(since I'm doing it myself) and have a nice roughwater boat that should do around 60-64. could you elaborate on the mods I would have to go with if doing a cam. Are you talking about true thru-hull exhuast?
Thanks.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

High& Dry,
Welcome to OSO.. You will get an incredible amount of information here... Though your boat may need allot of work, and what older boat doesn't, I am sure it will be nice when your done. You asked about cams and reversion.. You do need to be mindful of this situation. I cannot recommend a cam selection, since your exhaust is below the water line, you do need to be mindful of reversion. The large body of water that you are boating in is not only water source, for reversion, the exhaust manifold cooling can also contribute. When selecting an alternate cam, you may not realize the benefit without changing the exhaust, ( I am guessing you currently have the stock exhaust ) and carburetor(s). Since your going to tear the engines apart, I know that you may think that this may be the best time to evaluate the upgrades... and it is...
I am sure that someone will respond with good choices...
I would also suggest performing a search... within this forum..
You can find the option at the top of the page in each section you enter... Hope it all works out for you...
Quikdecison

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Finally another four winns owner, I have a '96 U-19. Sounds like you've got a great deal of work to do. If you're a fiberglass guy then most of it should go relatively easily and inexpensively. With regard to the motors, I just built up a new 5.8 for myself so I went through the whole power vs reliability issue.
Quikdecision is completely right, even if you went with a through hull exhaust you still have to worry about the water cooling the exhaust manifolds being pulled back into the cylinder. I know this isnt what you want to hear and its not what I wanted to hear either but you really should keep the motors close to stock & low compression. I had detonation due to water in one of my cylinders on my original volvo penta 5.0 and ended up with a hole in my piston the diameter of a golf ball. It wasnt pretty. There's a guy at four winns who knows this stuff like the back of his hand, he matches all the boats there with motors and also builds custom setups for superboats. I can't remember his name but I'll look into and let you know. Maybe he can offer some advice.

Good luck with the project in the meantime.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Just to clarify, I had an 89 201 Liberator with the 350 King Cobra engine/drive package.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

High&dry I just got done with the same kind of project as you are talking about.
I did all of the work my self and it coasts 3 to 4 times more than expected.
I did stringers on a 86 baja.
The project just kept getting bigger and bigger. then i thought I can do the motor and it got even bigger. (long and upsetting story on rebuilding my boat)
it took 2 years of gut wrenching work and lots of money. about 18000 when I was done.
I would never do that again!!!!!!!
Listen to these people on this board there is a lot of info here.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

This is no joke, My 221 Liberator had new interior, brand new gel-coat, new rims and tires on the trailer not to mention the motor mods with nice polished headers.... I had well over 20K into the boat without half the work your doing, I ended up giving it away just to get rid of it. First question asked was always WHAT DRIVE IS ON IT (King Cobra 454)????? OMC! That was it, end of conversation. I loved the boat and still miss it from time to time BUT never another OMC in this lifetime. Good Luck. :(

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

It sounds to me like he knows what he’s doing, and has things well under control. The transom, and stringers are already done, and you’ve got a good price on the interior? Sounds good to me. As far as engines go, I would build a set of mild strokers. I don’t know what size your boat is, but my 211 Liberator moves real well with a single 383. The cam I’m using is a mild marine cam (too mild if you ask me), and I have no reversion problems. I’m on my third season with this engine, and my Cobra drive is holding up real well. The “King Cobra” setup you have is just a package name. The actual drive is just the cobra. If your flame arrestor cover says King Cobra 350, you have the 270 HP package, as opposed to the 260 HP 5.7 package. The King Cobra drive is quite a bit larger than the Cobra, and as far as I know, only came with the big blocks. As far as the ignition goes, don’t you have electronic already? I thought 1989 was the first year for electronic ignition on the 5.7 Cobra. If not, there is a reliable electronic conversion kit that is fully ESA compatible. I’ve installed a load of them with no troubles. I will agree with everyone else however, project boats are always a lot of money (but I do them too). :)

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Well huh, Bill.
Never gonna break a King Cobra with 270 hp either.
Next somebody will tell me that they have a 4.3 liter merc with a Bravo butt. :D
I guess Liberator made one of everything. I have only ever seen Kings on 460s. (The idiot that sold me my boat advertised them as Kings, but of course, he lied.)


Hp500... you cheeze whiz.:D I wasn't trying to take a dump on his dream either. It just sounded like a really losing proposition in todays market.

But if he wants a project... he's got one.
Best of luck.

On the cam thing... I just know from changing cams on previous blocks that a small change doesn't do jack for the top end. Maybe make the sound more "lopey" or beasty. But no new MPH without radical cam, rework heads, springs, valves, intake, ignition and exhaust.
A cam mild enough that you can use the stock springs will change everything but speed. In fact, you might lose some.

We all know how much money and work that those extra couple mphs are. I would stay stock and reliable. Make a hot rod out of the next project. The ESA vs. ignition upgrade is a limiting factor.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

I shoulda read Liberator21s post. I'm not as wrong as I thought.

Dam you Bill:D

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

By the way... Liberator21 has been a huge help to me in the past couple years with my OMCs. Thanks Lib.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Damn you fund, it's Damn, not dam. :drink:

Ok, so I was wrong. I don't recall anything on the drive saying it was a king cobra or just cobra, just the flame arrestor with the king cobra and the big snake head.

And I agree it does sound like he has it under control. I'd be worried about putting too much power in it since OMC has been out of business for several years. (correct me if I'm wrong. :cool: ) Drive parts will become scarce, keep an eye out on ebay.

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

I wanted to be wrong dammit!!!! :D

OMC is gone... but the parts are not. Cobras and aftermarketcobras are around. OMC replacement parts are being manufactured by Bombardier/Evinrude/Johnson. I have had good luck finding stuff, which is good, because I got had and I needed two of everything. (sometimes three.)

I could get parts at the dealer two miles from work 90% of the time, and from Outdrive Man's business (Dubberts) 100% of the time.

Maybe they will get more scarce... but so far so good getting parts and support. Maybe I am lucky where I live. Outdrive shops will take them on trade and give a very fair credit against a new unit.

The problem is perception. They are actually solid drives. I had one alpha off of the boat and apart WAY more times that I have had to service TWO cobras. They have huge drive oil capacity. Who needs showers? I am just careful not to shift with a bad ESA. (I carry an extra ESA onboard so that I can replace it at sea and not have to limp back on one screw.) Pretty much plugs in.

And water intake impellers are really easy to change. You could do it swimming behind the boat. Carry an extra impeller kit too... why overheat when you can change it in 3 minutes without splitting the drive?

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Worst problem with KC's is shifting and 89 should be the year they changed to a cone clutch like Bravos. My 88 had the ignition interupter and shift dog like the Alpha. Now ready for this???I was in a 211 Liberator , with a 460 , that was replaced with a 540(bored and stroked Ford) 625 hp and never a problem with the drive. I was warned by two OMC mechanics "NO STRAIGHT ARM HOLESHOTS" and I heeded their advice. I could stand an 80 mph speedo straight down. No gps back then :rolleyes:

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

They are King Cobra engines(carb cover and serial #) and the drives are labeled king cobra on the trim cylinder however I know they are cobra drives with a cute sticker!!
I'd like to talk to mopower about that 625hp! :rolleyes:

The engines and drives are 1988 ( for a 1989 boat) they are clutch-dog cobras and the distributors are points type.

The boat is a 241 liberator. All original with all original parts, not molested just neglected. :D :D

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

i just redid my 1987 241 liberator, rebuilt 460 and king cobra outdrive and redid interior, floor was rotted but stringers were good. 10,000 invested including boat and new tidewater trailer all the work myself.super boat you will love the ride

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

Thanks Fund, I appreciate that. :)
By the way Fund, you're right, Bombardier makes the replacement parts for the Cobras now. GLM also has a new set of high strength gears out. The 241 was the boat I was thinking about moving up to, except I was thinking single big block. I guess they made them in all sorts of configurations. I saw some guy on Long Island selling a 251 with twin big block Fords. I'm just wondering how much more cockpit room you get with the 241 over the 211? From pictures I've seen of a 241, it looks like you get more cabin room, but nothing much in the way of additional cockpit space. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

liberator 21,

I don't know how cramped you are in the 21 but the 241 isn't as big as you would think by looking at it. It has about a 3 foot deep sundeck, a large bench(seat5?) then about 1.5-2' to the buckets and about 2'in front of them. But the cabin is huge!! :drink:

2' cabinets on each side then a large berth that you can sit up straight in. There is a ton of wasted space under the floor(who needs flotation foam :rolleyes: ) The 241 is just a wide-8'6beam, deep, long 24' boat .

oh yeah and very heavy @ 5900 w/twin350's

Re: Welcome to my Nightmare!
 

It sounds like the cockpit area is the same size as what I have now.
From the pictures I've seen, it looks like the 3 extra feet all went to the cabin. From your description, it sounds like I'm right. The wife is complaining that the cockpit area is too small, and she wants me to get something bigger. Who am I to argue??:) We spend most of our time outside, and although more cabin room is nice, I want more outdoor room too.