500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
10-10-2005, 10:24 AM
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500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
I`ve seen Canfields at 2250$, I think it`s best bang for a $....
For a cam choice, I believe there are two individuals, that could get you right cam for your needs, if looking for something else than a catalog cam...
But if you only need 500hp, keep your heads, and have them worked, and
Crane 168731 cam, Lightning headers would be really cost effective wake-up to the engine...and neighbours
For a cam choice, I believe there are two individuals, that could get you right cam for your needs, if looking for something else than a catalog cam...
But if you only need 500hp, keep your heads, and have them worked, and
Crane 168731 cam, Lightning headers would be really cost effective wake-up to the engine...and neighbours
10-10-2005, 02:21 PM
#2
Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
Zimm,
Some things may not always be necessary and there is some variance as to what a person can do and still be in the ball park. I suppose that whatever a person would like to do as far as parts, heads, and cam combinations, etc, whether they are custom or not is up to them as long as they are satisfied with the results.
Therefore, if you are looking for a BUDGET/low dollar set of 454's here's something that might interest you. A couple of years ago my cousin had his stock Merc 330's 454's with some very inexpensive upgrade/mods and then had them dyno tested on Earhart's dyno, with flat tappet hyd cams (.515"/.515" lift with 218*/226* duration at .050" on 110* lobes), dual plane intakes, stock Merc Thunderbolt ignition, 8.6 comp ratio, 830 Holley carb, with a turned 10/10 cast crank, 3/8" rods, cast pistons (although I would prefer at least forged pistons), and 2-bolt main blocks, some junk old GM, semi open chambered, oval port heads that he added some 2.19" stainless intake valves and 1.85" exhaust valves to. JimV did the port work, and originally tried using a 1.88" exhaust valve on that particular head, but he said the smaller valve actually flowed better (on the flow bench) than the larger exhaust valve. This is true even with the porting, and valve un-shrouding work the smaller exhaust valve still out-flowed the larger 1.88" valve. He was definately on a BUDGET, but he still had good, accurate machine work done. I call these the "poor mans hi-performance 330's". Or you can get real elaborate with your $$$ if you want as you are making parts choices.
On Earhart's dyno he made 461hp (with dyno headers) @ 5100rpm, and 510 lbs of torque @3600rpm and stayed very flat up to 5000rpm.
He runs the engines in a 1988 32' Baja' with GIL exhaust manifolds, and dry pipes. He was originally turning 3-bladed 21" prop with the stock engines, and with a GPS it is showing he has picked up 10mph at cruising speed of about 3500-4000rpm with a 3-bladed 25" prop with a top speed of 69.7mph @5000rpm with the old Bravo One gear case. He still needs to play with props a bit and he doesn't know what the boat did with the stock Merc 330's as he didn't have a GPS back then, but he said he can feel a BIG difference and is very happy. Although he doesn't necessarily need to, he may be upgrading a few items in the future,---but then that is his choice. Some guys really get into their hobby----it's kind of like going to a car show, and seeing all the neat stuff guys have under the hood---it may not always be necessary, but they have their own reasons for doing it. It's great living in America!
I am sure "rmbuilder"/Bob or anyone else can sell you an off the shelf cam just as easily---it all depends on what you want, and how much money you're willing to spend. Whatever you do I hope it goes well for you---have fun!
Some things may not always be necessary and there is some variance as to what a person can do and still be in the ball park. I suppose that whatever a person would like to do as far as parts, heads, and cam combinations, etc, whether they are custom or not is up to them as long as they are satisfied with the results.
Therefore, if you are looking for a BUDGET/low dollar set of 454's here's something that might interest you. A couple of years ago my cousin had his stock Merc 330's 454's with some very inexpensive upgrade/mods and then had them dyno tested on Earhart's dyno, with flat tappet hyd cams (.515"/.515" lift with 218*/226* duration at .050" on 110* lobes), dual plane intakes, stock Merc Thunderbolt ignition, 8.6 comp ratio, 830 Holley carb, with a turned 10/10 cast crank, 3/8" rods, cast pistons (although I would prefer at least forged pistons), and 2-bolt main blocks, some junk old GM, semi open chambered, oval port heads that he added some 2.19" stainless intake valves and 1.85" exhaust valves to. JimV did the port work, and originally tried using a 1.88" exhaust valve on that particular head, but he said the smaller valve actually flowed better (on the flow bench) than the larger exhaust valve. This is true even with the porting, and valve un-shrouding work the smaller exhaust valve still out-flowed the larger 1.88" valve. He was definately on a BUDGET, but he still had good, accurate machine work done. I call these the "poor mans hi-performance 330's". Or you can get real elaborate with your $$$ if you want as you are making parts choices.
On Earhart's dyno he made 461hp (with dyno headers) @ 5100rpm, and 510 lbs of torque @3600rpm and stayed very flat up to 5000rpm.
He runs the engines in a 1988 32' Baja' with GIL exhaust manifolds, and dry pipes. He was originally turning 3-bladed 21" prop with the stock engines, and with a GPS it is showing he has picked up 10mph at cruising speed of about 3500-4000rpm with a 3-bladed 25" prop with a top speed of 69.7mph @5000rpm with the old Bravo One gear case. He still needs to play with props a bit and he doesn't know what the boat did with the stock Merc 330's as he didn't have a GPS back then, but he said he can feel a BIG difference and is very happy. Although he doesn't necessarily need to, he may be upgrading a few items in the future,---but then that is his choice. Some guys really get into their hobby----it's kind of like going to a car show, and seeing all the neat stuff guys have under the hood---it may not always be necessary, but they have their own reasons for doing it. It's great living in America!
I am sure "rmbuilder"/Bob or anyone else can sell you an off the shelf cam just as easily---it all depends on what you want, and how much money you're willing to spend. Whatever you do I hope it goes well for you---have fun!
10-10-2005, 03:32 PM
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Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
I only have a single engine. I am on a budget, but I can go up to $5,000 if needed. I already have a magnum engine, so it has the four bolt mains and rectangle port heads. I was looking for info on what grind cam to use, and what heads to put on. I can afford aluminum ones since they don't go bad, I was thinking it would be a good investment. I can always use them on my next motor. If I can get my current heads ported for cheap- recommend someone and how much would it cost? I'd hate to dump a bunch on money into the stock iron heads.
10-10-2005, 04:35 PM
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Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
Originally Posted by sutphen30
yeah,,,you need to brag at the dock that you have a custom cam for 500hp.
don't forget the $2900 rocker arm set up,,$1000 camshaft and lifters,,custom mahle pistons $$$$$$,,crank trigger ignition $$$$$ and associated boxes,,special coated titanium springs $$$$$ for that 5500-5600rpm(if your allowed to go that high. )hv pump,if not a stef dry sump system w/ a hugh oil pan,,because a hv pump and stock oil pan won't work,so we're told. 
more big bucks.don't forget the jesel belt drive for reduced valve train harmonics. more $$$$,,so what we have,,oh thats right a custom big buck 454 making 500hp.
i'd go buy a hp500 and have it rebuilt. or work your heads,stick a 731 in it w/hp500 lifters(set your new springs right) and have a blast.you can also do it w/ a flat tappet cam(230,236,ls110) too w/ worked oval ports and 9.3-1 comp.boy i love building motors w/ other peoples money.
don't forget the $2900 rocker arm set up,,$1000 camshaft and lifters,,custom mahle pistons $$$$$$,,crank trigger ignition $$$$$ and associated boxes,,special coated titanium springs $$$$$ for that 5500-5600rpm(if your allowed to go that high.
)hv pump,if not a stef dry sump system w/ a hugh oil pan,,because a hv pump and stock oil pan won't work,so we're told. more big bucks.don't forget the jesel belt drive for reduced valve train harmonics. more $$$$,,so what we have,,oh thats right a custom big buck 454 making 500hp.i'd go buy a hp500 and have it rebuilt.
or work your heads,stick a 731 in it w/hp500 lifters(set your new springs right) and have a blast.you can also do it w/ a flat tappet cam(230,236,ls110) too w/ worked oval ports and 9.3-1 comp.boy i love building motors w/ other peoples money. Our product speaks for itself. Some of our customers have 10's of millions of dollars riding on whether they finish the race and they come to us. No doubt our pans are are overkill for most performance boaters but for those that want race proven performance they are an excellent choice. As far as what I post on this site and others it is good legitimate tech. Your ramblin's and side comments are doing nothing but bringing this technical section of this board down. Earlier this year I called you at home after one of your comments on another board and all you did was back pedal and say you were just joking. So I got this to say:
Leave your childish BS at home and try adding something to those who are asking for information on this board or log off!
To the original thread starter my apologies. If you got 5K to spend then I would stroke it to a 496 CID engine. You will be very happy. All your mag top in will be a good match.
Last edited by cstraub; 10-10-2005 at 04:37 PM.
10-11-2005, 07:18 AM
#5
Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
Zimm,
Here's another example of a 454cid combo---they're a little more expensive (better heads and larger cam) than my cousins 454's that I posted earlier. A friend of mine had a pair of 454's (may actually be 461cid) rebuilt. The difference between his and my cousin's engines is that he has forged crankshafts, and pistons, better flowing Merlin oval port heads with the larger valves with some clean-up bowl porting, larger lift/duration cams, and a higher 9.6 comp ratio. He also has dual plane aluminum hi-rise intake manifolds, Holley 800cfm carbs, and a hydraulic flat tappet cam with .552"/.578" lift, duration at .050" lift is 234*/242*on 112* lobes. It was dyno tested, and made 505hp (with dyno headers) @ about 5500-5600rpm on Tom Earhart's dyno, and made about 514 lbs of torque. The engines belong to a guy with the screen name of "Super-V" on OSO. He runs the engines in a 28' Challenger with Lightening tubular headers and for the way he has it proped it presently runs at about 78mph on the GPS.
My cousins engine were designed to peek at about 5100rpm because he is only using cast pistons---something I don't recommend, but was all he felt he could afford at the time.
I see that "cstraub" brought up the idea of a 496cid engine which is another route you can take. There is reliability in cubic inches and you wouldn't have to build up the engines as much in a 496 as you would in a 454 and still have the power, and reliability. It all depends on which route you want to take, and how much money you're willing to spend. My engine builder has a pair of 496cid engines he is building here in the near future from some old 454cid/330hp 4-bolt main blocks. I am not sure what heads he's going to use yet, but he will eventually dyno test them at some point.
I still think you can hit the 500hp mark with a 454cid engine though, but as Pat McPherson stated, I think you'll have to run it up to about 5600rpm to see it------just as my friend witht the Challenger had to with his engines that made 505hp.
Here's another example of a 454cid combo---they're a little more expensive (better heads and larger cam) than my cousins 454's that I posted earlier. A friend of mine had a pair of 454's (may actually be 461cid) rebuilt. The difference between his and my cousin's engines is that he has forged crankshafts, and pistons, better flowing Merlin oval port heads with the larger valves with some clean-up bowl porting, larger lift/duration cams, and a higher 9.6 comp ratio. He also has dual plane aluminum hi-rise intake manifolds, Holley 800cfm carbs, and a hydraulic flat tappet cam with .552"/.578" lift, duration at .050" lift is 234*/242*on 112* lobes. It was dyno tested, and made 505hp (with dyno headers) @ about 5500-5600rpm on Tom Earhart's dyno, and made about 514 lbs of torque. The engines belong to a guy with the screen name of "Super-V" on OSO. He runs the engines in a 28' Challenger with Lightening tubular headers and for the way he has it proped it presently runs at about 78mph on the GPS.
My cousins engine were designed to peek at about 5100rpm because he is only using cast pistons---something I don't recommend, but was all he felt he could afford at the time.
I see that "cstraub" brought up the idea of a 496cid engine which is another route you can take. There is reliability in cubic inches and you wouldn't have to build up the engines as much in a 496 as you would in a 454 and still have the power, and reliability. It all depends on which route you want to take, and how much money you're willing to spend. My engine builder has a pair of 496cid engines he is building here in the near future from some old 454cid/330hp 4-bolt main blocks. I am not sure what heads he's going to use yet, but he will eventually dyno test them at some point.
I still think you can hit the 500hp mark with a 454cid engine though, but as Pat McPherson stated, I think you'll have to run it up to about 5600rpm to see it------just as my friend witht the Challenger had to with his engines that made 505hp.
10-11-2005, 08:35 AM
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MarineKinetics
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Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
Originally Posted by sutphen30
f you straub,,if he listens to you,,he'll need 5k just for his stroker kit and w/ less than 500hp.just look at some of your post,,you can piss alot of money away on fluff.i at least build what i say it will make and have a boat load of money left over.you why,,because i used to listen to a-holes like you.
again,,you need 496ci,,most of us intelligent people can do it w/ 454's.go back to selling oil pans.you should apoligize,,most here build on a bugdet and want the most bang for the buck,,something you definetly can't provide.
again,,you need 496ci,,most of us intelligent people can do it w/ 454's.go back to selling oil pans.you should apoligize,,most here build on a bugdet and want the most bang for the buck,,something you definetly can't provide.
Bob
10-11-2005, 08:36 AM
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Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
I need to change gears here. Looks like 500HP out of a 454 mag will require a new bottom end from what your posts look like. Since my engine has 20 hours on it, I'm not going that route until it needs it. Heck it's on it's first post-break in oil change!
Looks like exhaust first, then head work and a cam change.
Looks like exhaust first, then head work and a cam change.
Last edited by zimm17; 10-11-2005 at 09:24 AM.
10-11-2005, 09:40 AM
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Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
A 540 will spin that prop at 5700 RPM. Your slip is at 12%. Spinning at 5700 and 12% slip will give you 79 mph. Is it worth 6K? I have what you need.Send me a PM for info MIKE
11-06-2005, 04:00 AM
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Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
Should I Find out the quote John Lingenfelter gave me for a 496 with Oval port heads that turned 660hp....
The Price for his work was back then Way under 10 grand and today I have built same kind of engines with similar power in MY Dyno for much less And Iīm located in Europe !
Sutpehn30 should in my eyes tone down a little but heīs not to be ignored tech wise bytheway.
I think we boaters/engine builders globaly canīt afford to not take into consideretion others proven combos.
*there ainīt that MANY of us to be around...yes And I sold parts in my younger days...read like 15yrs ago when John gave his offer.
Like thay said in HotRod a while back....any moron can take 500hp out of a SmallBlock
We Donīt want this to be an Apache thread/forum ?
The Apache founders wouldīve probably buried us all by now
The Price for his work was back then Way under 10 grand and today I have built same kind of engines with similar power in MY Dyno for much less And Iīm located in Europe !
Sutpehn30 should in my eyes tone down a little but heīs not to be ignored tech wise bytheway.
I think we boaters/engine builders globaly canīt afford to not take into consideretion others proven combos.
*there ainīt that MANY of us to be around...yes And I sold parts in my younger days...read like 15yrs ago when John gave his offer.
Like thay said in HotRod a while back....any moron can take 500hp out of a SmallBlock
We Donīt want this to be an Apache thread/forum ?
The Apache founders wouldīve probably buried us all by now
Last edited by MikeyFIN; 11-06-2005 at 04:06 AM.
11-06-2005, 05:26 AM
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Re: 500 horsepower recipe for 454 mag (carb)?
I just had my 454 mag rebuilt , spun a rod bearing, block and heads had roughly 180 hours on it, the internals god only knows(long story, Boat 25 sunsation orginall y came from national marine) I had an engine bulder out of kenosha wisc. , LAM engines hone the block do some minor head work , installed a scat forged crank polished and balanced it , JE pistons, comp exteme cam and lifter kit#11-236-4,, used felpro marine gaskets , cost of parts and labor was right at $4000.00 It would be a nice engine for a whipple now! But using my stock mag intake manifold and quadrajet i am pushing 465 ponies , had keith from water and wheels throw the motor back in the boat added revolutions exhaust manifolds ($1200.00) for some added weight savings and some extra ponies and gained and honest 6 MPH , boat runs an honest 75 mph now, thats w/ timing set at 8 & 34 could bump both those up a notch add a holley 800 and an msd box for probably another 3mph. But now wife says boat is now too fast we should get a bigger 1 -music to my ears looking for a 28' to do this all over agian! Had a total of about $6800 in everything parts and labor from pulling the motor to re-install.
Last edited by trimman; 11-06-2005 at 05:32 AM.
