Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

Thanks Joe, I'll be calling you soon

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

Rage,
Royal Purple is another synthetic oil. I ran into it in the industrial arena. They made claims that it would do wonderful things. I tried it in my outdrive and measured a 12* decrease in top cap temps. Back then they didnt have the thermocouples available to plug into the drive as they now do. I have used it for years and I have friends and customers that have used it.. I also have customers that use Redline.. I dont care for it because it is so hard to clean up and it messy... BUT.. it seems to work well and so does the Royal Purple.
It was stated on a thread some time back that they all have their pros... some handle things better than others due to the properties of the oil. Merc's HP is a synthinetic, I believe and it is suppose to handle anything you through at it.... My opinion is that they all work when changed at decent intervals. When I build a XR drive, I recommend the oil be changed at 5 hrs, 15hrs and then at 20-25 from there on. The XR gears and the lower gears give up metal until they are broken in.. and then it slows. If you run that very long the tiny metal peices will marr up the surface of the cone and roller in a tappered bearing. Best to get it out of there and keep the oil clean..
I dont believe I have seen the flat spots that Joe is referring to. But then I have not looked for them. And I am not saying that Joe is incorrect. When the bearings in a drive are preloaded you can feel if they have any problems with them and it usually shows up on the torque gauge when setting the rolling torque. When I get into a drive, I always change all the bearings.. as a rule of thumb. No sense being in there if your not going to make it new. Unless of course it is just an inspection tear down, and the bearings look and feel good. And I am not saying that bearings dont have flat spots. I generally see drives that are so worn out that all the bearings are pitted from metal being crushed in them or it has been grenaded due to over powering or abuse.
The clutch issue.. well I havent seen that one either due to Redline or RP.. I have seen clutch damage when some one shifts into gear above an idle.. that can flatten the ribs on the cone and damage the gear itself.. Have I had complaints of problems of shifting.. not if it is setup correctly and the parts are not worn, etc..

So it all comes down to who is your customer, how do they use it and what do they like.. I run the RP and my own additive and run it for about 50hrs before draining.. that 25hr mark always seems to sneak up me. So far so good.. but then I can rebuild my own drive and I like to see what effect things have on it..

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

Well said Mr Gadgets, the flat spots I am reffering to and I have seen are in the pinion shaft (vertical ) in the uncaged needles and by the time I have gotten them they where done they stop spining because they are not a preloaded bearing so they do need a little friction to roll correctly.. also the cone clutch uses friction to engauge you all be the judge common physics if somthing needs friction to work then 0 friction wont work as well and yes 0 friction means less wear but no wear doesnt mean that its working right, im not saying the drive will self destruct im just saying I wont put it in my boat and if a customer wants it in his he will have to take it to someone else because I treat my customers boats as I would my own!

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

There's no such thing as zero friction.

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

Thanks for bringing that to my attention Joe, I will take a closer look at the needles in that bearing from now on.. And your right, no preload on that one.

Dick

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

I've heard Merc lube will react better with any water that sneaks in.

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

panther, check the red line bottle it says right on it "0" friction

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

I know but I don't believe it. Scientifically, I don't think there is anything with a true "0" friction. If there was, stuff would last forever and we would have absolutely no heat when the drive is running. There's always some kind of friction going on.

Its funny we're talking about the that bearing. The two times that I blew my drives this summer those bearings were totally wiped out and this was with the merc. hi-po gearlube.

Anyway, my guess is the tolerances were never set properly when the drive was assembled. I chucked some teeth both times, so when the second drive was rebuilt I had them take a little bit of lash out and tighten everything up a hair.

Thanks for your advice this summer!!

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

Mr Gadgets,

Do the pinion gears in a Bravo 1x (with the needle bearings described as experiencing flat spoting) actually revolve around a shaft or do they just cycle back and forth as the pinon gears in an automotive differential when going in a straight line with equal rolling radius tires or the needle brearings in a u-joint?

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

rage the pinion gear is mounted to the bottom of the shaft unlike rear end pinion gears there is only one

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

True absolute zero friction is physically impossible but a mechanical friction that for all purposes is so low that little or no observable mechanical wear occurs can be imagined. There is also to be expected marketing license when it comes to labels created for a products packaging. The product label is not the same as a products specification sheet. The latter will identify the method of testing and the accuracy of the posted results.

In addition there is also friction with in any oil or any fluid do to internal shear forces and surface tension. The automatic transmission's torque converter is a classic example of the forces/friction that this characteristic can generate.

The ability of a bearings rollers to rotate during normal operation depends upon the bearing design tolerances and conditions of loading / use versus the lubricants characteristics. A bearing manufacturer would be the best source for this kind of question.

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

I am at least one of Mr. Gadgets' customer's who uses the Red Line Heavy Shock Proof drive lube in my Bravo One XR drives. I have never had a problem with "resivoir overflow" due to execessive heat or anything else. During the use of the Redline, Dick (Mr. Gadgets) has had my drives apart for inspection and has not found anything that looks compromising to the bearings, etc, etc. BUT he is right, it IS some sticky, clingy stuff !!!

I have changed the lube in my drives at about every 25-30 hour intervals. I have only seen a very slight amount of fuzz on the magnetic drain plug from the drives---no pieces or chuncks. Prior to switching from the Merc hi-perf green lube, I have been running the Redline for a total of about 80+ hours or so in my drives with twin naturally aspirated 565cid engines making 700+ lbs of torque loaded with gas, gear, and crew which makes for about a 9000 pound boat.

No problems that we have discovered yet with the Redline.

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

Rage,
That bearing holds the lash on the lower set of gears. If the bearing gets sloppy, it will let the shaft and the pinion gear move away from the driven gear and that is a bad thing. I have not seen too much damage to that bearing, unfortunately, well actually good.. but you know what I mean.
I see more problems with the lower gears, or XR upper gears wearing out under high loads and tapered bearings with evidence of metal being run through them. The next big thing is teeth breaking off gears and then the aluminum towers with cracks below the surface or being sheared off completely.
It depends on loads seen by the drive. Driving habits play a big part in those loads. I have one customer running, at first 975 hp through a Bravo that I built and the upper gears wore out in 70hrs, which is Very acceptable for the amout of power he runs.. The boat is a smaller light boat, around 3500# I believe. That customer has bumped the power up to 1150hp and I have yet to see the inside of the drive since the switch. But this boat is driven very hard.. Now a 50ft boat with tripple 575, would eat Bravo's every 20hrs .. we streached that to 80hrs before the vertical shaft would break, but that was a stock shaft and I my opinion a weak point..

I will see more damage I am sure, because there is nothing that cant be broken and in my opinion the Bravo has been asked to do way more than it was designed for..

Sorry, I got to rambling.. the upper thrust bearings will spin continuely... the upper gears are spining when ever the motor is running..

Kamma.. I will give you a call tomorrow.. Well look good an hard at your bearings when we tear them down this spring..

Dick

Dick

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

I am currently freshening up my XR upper, Imco lower drive. This is my first full tear down and rebuild. Mr Gadgets has been guiding me thru the process. My lower gears were worn out so they will be replaced. The attached picture is of the worn thrust surface of the forward upper gear and the worn lower. I am not certain how many hours are on the drive being that I got it used last winter. I was told that it had fresh gears in it. I think I was lied to or it was set up wrong. I put about 60 hours on it with 680 h.p., 660 torque in a 4000 lb 25' Checkmate. As far as the worn upper thrust surface, I had the surface refaced by a machinist. He took .003" off to clean it up like new. So, I can re-shim with a larger shim and ofcourse make this the reverse gear.
With Dick's help. I am confident that it will be set up correctly this time. After I learn how to do it, no more relying on others for drive work. I have had enough of broken promises and lies.

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

I have lost your number. can you give it to me again?

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

Good, then I can call you for advise. Exactly my plan also.

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

For those that have misplaced my number... I laugh cause I lose everything.. LOL

616-335-8446 Home before 9pm please.. 5am comes early.
616-403-1006 Cell. During the day.

Thanks

Dick

Re: Peach Fuzz on Bravox1 drain plug magnet??
 

Taking your suggestion, I looked at the 6 empty 1 gallon bottles of Redline HD Shock Proof that I have in my basement.

No where on the bottle does it say anything about "0" friction. The only thing it says is "reduced friction" compared to other gear oils etc. etc.

Just curious but where did you see this?