Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

What was good and what was bad about the Blackhawk outdrives?

&

Where did they go???????

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

This is a good ? to post up on the Donzi Net we have quite a few guys that are running them. The internals of a BH are the same as a Bravo the only exception is the prop shaft bearing carrier which is a fair bit larger. I think the only problem is getting air and not handling the throttle right, you will puke the upper. If it does in the case you are screwed. I ran a BH for a short time on a 22C with a juiced small block, the handling was to say the least was great. The boat ran great bottom to upper mid range but did lousey top end due to the drives inability to give any bow lift, to run the drive you need 1 of 3 things: Rocker hull, Arneson rocker plates or a lot of HP! I still have my BH and a few dreams, if I find the extra $$ I would like to do over an 18 or find a set of A plates and stick it back on my 22.

Phil

Phil

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

I have arnesons now but i think the x is too high and they aren't biting enough. I like how the blackhawk drop down a bit. I'm thinking that might give me the extra bite i'm looking for.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

There is no such thing as a "Too High X" with the Arneson. You have the ability to change the depth with the trim.

You need a propeller with either 4 or 5 blades. This will make a huge difference if you have high slippage.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

You don't just swap a Arneson for a black hawk. They don't share a single part between them. That included the crankshaft centerline and the transom cut out.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

thanks Rik. Just send me some new input shafts and a couple of those extension boxes and i'll do that. I spoke with Rich @ Sutphen and he said that i need to either lower the drives or push them back to get the proper angle of attack. Sorry x factor was the wrong term. I need to change the depth without angling the drive down too much. He actually recommended the Bravo but, i can't get rid of my arnesons. Gotta have those roosters!

Cord, I realize that you cannot swap drive thanks for your input.

I don't want to swap my drives.......In my opinion you can't beat an arneson. One of the main reasons i purchase my boat was because of the arnesons.....but i was just curious about what the deal was with the blackhawk and why they liked the KAAMA drive on sutphens in the 80's instead of the arneson.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

Represent

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

I like that sticker!

Short hub propellers are not the best especially when compared to today's propellers. The high rake Herings or Rolla's will make a huge difference also.

Shafts and boxes will do a lot for the performance of the boat also.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

BH drives work best on boats with a ton of rocker or small cats with natural bow lift. The have no ability to push the nose oup because they have no real leverage on the hull. They are also limited to basic bravo horsepower and need to be throttled carefully on waves. That and docking/ trailer loading is some kind o fun :)

Would I switch back to a bravo drive......NOPE 8 mph with no horse power changes :)

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

Rik how much am i going to have to rob the bank for?

What kind of $$$$ for a box and shaft package?

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

Thanks for the info airpacker. Looks you've got a fat set-up. :cool:

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

Wade call me.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

You need so many tools to rebuild one right, it's crazy. You need all the basic Bravo drive tools, Plus 20 more expensive Blackhawk only tools. I have the Merc. special tools book right in front of me. Not alot of marina's have the tools either. If you blow one up , you are better off getting another on ebay, Parts aren't cheap either and as we all know Merc. will eventually discontinue all parts that are exclusively Blackhawk, just like they are doing with the TRS. Alot of people like them, and if it works for them and they are happy thats great, but there are alot of options out there. I guess it depends on the application, the power ,weight, and how the boat will be used , or abused ! (coming out of the H2o. ) BBB :eek:

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

You may have read this in another thread, but I ordered a 1994 40' Hustler Fiore w/triple 502 Magnum EFIs w/ the Blackhawk drives. It was the first triple application of the BH with gas engines. The guy who owns Hustler now, Joe L., had triple diesels. The drive was in its infancy back then and if you pushed them in rough water they stayed in gear. It was like having three crash boxes that were stuck in forward. While they were working properly, only a race boat could catch me. I did a boat test back then with 3/4 fuel and three guys. Radar gunned at 89 MPH. Boat had air conditioning, refrigerator and a full cabin.

They, MerCruiser, stood behind the drives 100% and we tried different gear sets and different formulas of Lock-tite to keep the cones on the gear sets. Finally they put on 1.50:1 Bravo 1s and I lost 10 MPH on top and gobs of acceleration.

Gary Meisenger is the inventor of the drive and I bet he wishes they would use today's XR and ZX technology to bring the drive back.

They had much less trouble with lighter, single engine boats than my 13,000 lb. behemoth.

With the Bravo 1s it was just another big boat. With the Blackhawks it was really special.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

I am curious as to how a switch from a blackhawk to a 3" shortie with a 5 or 6 blade would do on a boat that was set up for the BH in the first place. It should provide the drag reduction and the thrust( due to the 5blade) with the added benefit of the XZ XR upper strength. Has anyone tried this?

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

Gary Meisenger is the inventor of the drive and I bet he wishes they would use today's XR and ZX technology to bring the drive back.

Gary did use a different set of gears when he rebuilt my drive. When we were talking about the rebuild, I mentioned that other people had told me that the XR gears wouldn't fit. He smiled and said that they havn't had any problems. I've always wondered what gears they used.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

Cord:
What boat do you have a Blackhawk running? Have you experienced the same troubles I did in 1994?
Ed

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

some drive rebuild place should take some old blackhawks and rebuild em with xr gears etc. thatd be one niice drive

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

Learning curve = $$$$$

Right off the bat, I learned about the need for airation on the BH drive on my cat. I twisted off the end of the vertical shaft within minutes trying to plane off the boat. Redid the drive, drilled a crap load of holes in the right places and have put over 100 hrs on the drive now with no failures what so ever. I run it hard and WFO alot. I run it in big water. I generally beat the piss out of it swinging 31's thru 1.50's with near 600 hp and it still holds together. On the other hand, I popped 3 sets of bravo gears in one season with a bravo hp, 1.50 gears and a labbed 28 bravo with less power so go figure.

Like the Edsel and the Tucker, it was too far ahead of its time.

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

You are absolutely right about it being ahead of it's time. If it were today Packaged with the ITS transom and XR internals It would be much more versatile and probably work on more hulls. Imagine the 600sci ITS Blackhawk package!!!

Re: Pros & Cons of the Blackhawk
 

I never got it on. Well, I did mount the drive and did idle with it, but I never got on plane. It was a bad day. I had a severe internal hydraulic leak so I made it about a quarter mile before the steering bled out. When I pulled the boat I trailered the drive which bent the temporary wing plate. This was after fighting to have a new trim ram pin overnighted from Merc because the original one was bent when my boat was rear ended the day before!

The biggest problem was with the steering. Nobody had a steering wing plate that would fit my existing IMCO steering. IMCO makes the plate ($1,100 please!) but it was NOT compatable with their newer steering systems! DOH! I was faced with the need to custom build a plate and didn't have the coin to make it happen. I've since sold the boat, but the drive is still hanging on the wall in my shop. My next boat (I have the mold for a 18' cat) will have the blackhawk drive and the merc ITS system. This will be the permanent solution to the steering issue.