More SBC Upgrades
 

Sorry if this subject has previously been beat to death but I've got some more questions. I've read much of the posts and responses here. I have a 1987 Liberator 211 that I intend to restore - re-paint, upgrade the engine and redo trailer. The boat currently has the Mag 350 w/Alpha. I'd like to get as close to 400hp as possible without going completely thru the engine. Don't want to go the 383 route just yet. I've talked to the factory and was told this hull was developed for the Liberator and should be good for 70mph. My goal would be as close as possible to this number (without going BB) I intend to check engine condition - if compression etc is ok I plan the following: Vortech heads, air gap intake, change to a Holley, not sure about the ignition yet, still puzzled on cam choice, install new exhaust - thinking about the Revolution manifolds, and compete re-plumbing of fuel system. Would like to keep the mechanical fuel pump. Some questions:
1. What cam
2. Is the stock ignition system sufficient
3. Any recommendations on a decent fuel/water separator
4. Exhaust manifolds - without breaking the bank.
I've also read some of Dennis Moores SBC book and he does write that most of the original equipment is just fine. I can't see a staggered bore carb being as efficient at fuel/air mixture flow as a square bore carb (at 1/2 and greater throttle) for example. I'm not doubting his marine knowlege,but maybe I'm looking for something a little more radical than he suggests.
Thanks

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

i'm in the same process that you are with a 89 liborator 211. pretty sweet boat, even sweeter if you got a deal like i did. i built a 355 for mine. It's a 11:1 compression 355 balanced rotating assembly, stock heads with verry little work . comp cams lift is .440/.440 and duration is 218/218. good from 1200-5200 rpm. ignition system is still stock and exhaust is stock. it also has roller rockers. nothing extra ordinary... including all machine work with all new internals (excluding crank & rods) i've only got about $2300 in everything. it also is topped with a performer intake & 650cfm holley. thinking about going with a torker II manifold (about $95 from summit racing) this combo is making about 395-410 hp on 93 octane . looking at 65-70 mph

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

I had an '88 211 with a 460 King Cobra that topped out at 62mph. Your small blocks have their work cut out for them :(. That boat is solid and heavy. I replaced the 460 Ford with a 540 Ford dynoed at 625 hp/710 ft tq and could stand an 85 mph speedo straight down. Sorry I did have a GPS back then.
Actually the hull didn't handle hat speed too bad as long as it was calm :eek: .

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

I learned from little outboards (well, little boats, BIG outboards) that chine walkin' is scary at first, but you can actually control it with some practice. it takes a lot of trim, steering and throttle input... Helps tp have a foot throttle and trim controls on the wheel! I'm sure a 2 ton (or so) boat is a little scarier beyond their limits than a 1100 lb (including motor!) outboard :D :D :D

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You're running 11:1, no detonation problems with 93 octance fuel? Are you actually getting 65-70 mph or is that an estimate? Sounds like a great package, did you work over your stock heads a little?

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my buddy has a 2004 baja outlaw that runs 63 on gps and i will pull him. timing set on 32* and no detination. do you have any pictures of your boat on here?

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Sorry don't have any pics - have had the boat for a few years been in storage last 2 years and it's time to get it back on the water. Really like the boat, is a lot of boat for only 21', adequate cabin for overnighters yet very towable. Also like the teak wood and classic styling. Just need more speed, we use it water skiing occasionally but mostly cruising. A drag only going high 40's maybe low 50's - especially after being at the Miami boat show - 105 in a 42' is more like it.

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I guess everyone's tired of talking about small blocks. I'd really appreciate any input from you knowledgeable folks on my above posted questions. Thanks.

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I have been working (on and off) on mine for two years, the info on this forum has been plentiful, I have a 23' formula with twin small blocks, I was going to build a pair of strokers, but ended up buying two new engine/drive packages from Pro Tec Marine. The engines from Pro Tec were less expensive than building my own, the only drawback($$) is I had to upgrade to Bravo drives, which I was goig to do anyway in the future. If you want to build you own I have all the parts I aquired to do my own, and will get rid of cheap! If you spend some time and do some "searchs" in this section of the forum you will find all the info you need!

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I'd like to talk to you about your parts, I'll have to upgrade site membership for pm's I guess. I thought about doing the Bravo swap as well and going BB and all problems would be solved. I've got a 461 laying around now that I could use, but the $ for Bravo swap on this boat doesn't make sense at this time. If I had a twin though....I'd do it. Will upgrade what's there, stay with the Alpha and look for something else with twins for now. Thanks

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

400HP out of a pump gas marine friendly 350 CID engine is not realistic. To get 325 to 350HP out of stock parts is do able but would be borderline "user friendly".

To get the 325 to 350HP and be "user friendly" you'll need the following:
A good set of iron or aluminum aftermarket heads in the 170 to 180cc range. World Product S/R torquers come to mind.
I would run a high rise dual plane intake like the edelbrock rpm or the edelbrock airgap rpm. Both good choices for your goals.

Camshaft based on the SR torquers would be something around 220 on the intake and 230 on the exhaust with lift being in the mid 500's. Hyd roller would be my choice of type of cam.

Carb I would go with a nice BG 750 Sea Demon.

Stock Merc ignition works great on a NA engine that is not going to see over 6000 rpm.

Stock log manifolds need to be upgraded. New or used get you something that is more anti reversion then the stock stuff.

Remember HP is torque x RPM. In a boat you are limited on rpm, so big torque numbers at low rpm are best suited for boats. The easiest way to accomplish this is with cubic inch.

Puting a huge camshaft in a boat is not the answer either. Even though a boat engine runs say between 3000 and 5500 rpm, boat engines don't have the advantage a car does with a transmission. We can't rev the engine to 3500 and dump the shifter. We have to start at idle of 800 and the engine has to climb to the powerband under load, so the cam has to make power below the 3000 to move the boat.

Hope this helps.

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

cstraub: Thanks for the input, exactly what I'm looking for. Why S/R Torquers over Vortech? Are these heads that much better etc? Any recommendations on fuel filter/seps? thanks.

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

The SR's are great bang for the buck. The use the old style intakes so you have more choices and could get a deal on a used one. The Vortec's are great heads but are OEM production stuff. The SR's have thicker decks and more meat and already come with 2.02/1.6 valve sizing.

Fuel/Sep's I have just always run the Merc or Sierra.

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

Liberator II, Follow what CSTRAUB is telling you. He hit it right about heads, cams, etc. Been there done that myself. (1986 211 Liberator) The only thing that I would suggest is to use the Performer RPM manifold, not the air gap. A boat does not have the air flow through the manifold that a car has to benefit from this design, save the money.
Dave

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

Yeah but the air gap LOOKS COOL!! :D :D :D :drink:

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I have some stuff listed in the swap shop! Manifolds are gone sold 10 mins after post! My E-mail [email protected]

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

Dave:

Thanks, what speeds were you getting with your 211?

Re: More SBC Upgrades
 

57 Gps

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I will be doing an engine build up soon too,I am using vortec heads and plan a zz4 crate motor cam,or similar,I was told by a good engine builder that should put me somewhere around 37-390 hp and still be very friendly,I am going to go with 9.5:1 and will use a 650 dp that already exists,I think a 750 is a little big for a low compression 350 (9-9.5:1) I made 450 hp with my ford with a 650 no problem,you want to keep the engine with torque.
Hope I helped.

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Please keep me posted on your progress and thoughts on your build up. I'd like to start my project in about a month to have ready for the season. Can you run 87 octane fuel on the 9.5:1 or is 92 mandatory? I still like the advice from cstraub about the torquer heads, they already have the big valves and right sized runners - that makes sense. I'd seriously consider these instead of the Vortech heads at this point. Thanks.

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I already have the heads,they were just freshened up,and I got them for 200.00 with 50.00 shipping,I could not beat it.I am not a chevy guy so I ask alot before I buy,I was told by alot of people that 400 ish horse is easy and managable with these heads and the RIGHT cam,I know with my Fords the cam choice meant the world,proper parts work great together.

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The ZZ4 has angle plug heads, if the heads you are using are angle, you should bolt on the manifolds to make sure you have clearance to the plug boot. If the plugs are straight or you are using headers.... please disregard this reply :D :D