Bravo nightmares
 

I am done with Bravos. Any thoughts on upgrades? I have a good source for a great price on an Imco Extreme, however what about B-max, Konrad, etc. I have a modified EFI ProCharged 454 in a Velocity 280 got 7 hours on my last Bravo and never left the water. It goes away on flat water going on plane. Any thoughts are welcome.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

What are you breaking in the Bravo-uppers or lowers? What gear ratio? On a lighter boat like yours Bmax would be the way to go.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Uppers disintegrate, I have done 1.50 and 1.36 every prop from a labed 32 to a labbed 28 with the 1.36 this time. It is not a can't drive it thing I have gotten a 150 hours out of a Bravo but enough is enough.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Merc. had a problem with upper gears last year. I don't know if they fixed the problem. I had Bravo type drives 1.36 but they lasted 10 hours with two major failures. I changed to Konrad Ace's so far no problems.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Waht kind of boat, HP. prop size. We have not dynoed but our guess is between 725 to 775 maybe a little more, Know a place to get a good price.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

It sounds like you are just done with bravos but your choices are limited for a bolt on replacement. On the bigger boats a konrad bravo conversion could be a good set-up but unless you can move engine forward some and re-rig some things it will be difficult.The only "bolt-on" drive that I know of is a b-max,super hd upper gears,bigger and heavier too if you don't mind ,still uses stock xr lower gears,this year they are treating them with some kind of a process though. They have a hd lower with beefy gears every one is talking about but it is not for regular bravo props or speed boats.The thing I would look at is who is building your drives,what is going in them,is someone telling you the regular parts are as good as the aftermarket ones? I am running around 950 hp in a boat close to the same size and weight as yours,my upper gears are going on 4 years old. I built my own bravo drive using the upgrade parts from max machine worxs,regular xr upper gears they supposedly put thru some kind of process,a hd steel tower,billet top cap,different thrust bearings and inside bearings in the gears,hd steel spanner nut where stock one is aluminum,billet steel seal holder where input shaft goes in,billet input yoke,hd shaft going thru the cone clutch,hd coupler,billet vert shaft,billet prop shaft. I run a 30 pitch labbed bravo and 32 pitch labbed bravo depending how much fuel and passengers I have in my boat.My old motor was a blown 540 making around 725-750 hp,I would take off from rolling start at wfo all the time,every winter I tore drive down and checked the gears and bearings for wear or scarring,the stuff would look like new. I did shear off a vertical shaft one time putting boat into full boost over and over and over again trying to see if I could keep jumping waves going down river being a dumbazz but that was stupidity on my part. I have since upgraded motor further to mid 900 hp/tq range,lower gears have became a issue lasting about 40-50 hours before they start chipping away a eating them selves up but a B-max uses the same ones so it wouldn't help in my case. But as far as you puking drives in 7 hours with 750-800 hp in a light boat there are parts out there that will hold up 100 plus hours unless your just a madman when taking off. Ian blain,aka patriyacht has 700 hp N/A 540motors in a 13,000lb plus black thunder without many drive issues running bravo's, Smitty

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Last year, Velocity installed a Konrad Ace system on a 290 with an 800 hp Innovation. As with all the Konrad installations, it's been working flawlessly. Give Clay at Velocity a call. He can fill you in with the details.

Kurt
[email protected]

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

I run the Bmax with 1000+HP and this year I'm testing new coated lower gears for Dean. Thus far in about 20hrs it has no sign of problems. I have run it very hard for several 100+mph passes, and normally that would be trouble for the lower gears. I think Bmax has a winner here. If it lasts the season for me I'll be very satisfied. I'm going on vacation in 10 days, and it will see a lot of abuse. If it holds up I'll be very impressed. The upper was already bullet proof, but 1.30 ratio is the highest available. With under 800HP you really can't break it. :drink:

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

rbeyer,
You never mentioned what Bravo you are running? I am running 680 hp, 660 torque in an 25 Checkmate. I beat it up pretty good, but respect it. I am running an XR upper, Imco SC lower. So far, 40 hours this season no issues at all. Due to necessity, I learned how to build them myself. As you can imagine, your drives longevity has alot to do with how it is set up. You wont make it out of the "No Wake" zone with a bad set up.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

BMAX :cool:

$11K, 1 year warranty to 950 HP/TQ, buy the 2 yr extended warranty for a total of 3. :cool: :cool:

Switched from IMCO Extremes, they're just glorified bravo's. The BMax upper gears are twice the size of the Bravo and so are the bearings etc.

It's the most economical conversion IMHO. :cool:

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

11K sounds large, I am teaching some in the business. What is a bottom line price.
Bob
847-514-1964

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Rbeyer,
Our Boat is a 2005 Sonic 386sts with Innovation 800's
Here's the thread with my Konrad install.http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...ghlight=konrad
The engines didn't move foward with my install.
Tom

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

I love it. What kind of cost each and availability.
I have no room for engine movement with the pro-cahrger, it is very close!!!

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

The Imco is basically similar to an XR. They're stronger than a Bravo but still not bullet proof. The Konrad or Imco 1000 use a transmission in the extension box, both of those drives are rated for more hp than you are running. The B-Max upper is way stronger than an XR, but it still uses Bravo type lowers and shifts in the upper drive unit. You will probably never break the upper in a B-Max, you'll tear up lowers.
Konrad Ace or Imco 1000 is probably your best alternative but it's going to be more money than a B-Max upper. How much do you want to spend and how much reliability do you want?

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Bob,
The price as gone up since my conversion was done. The best person to call would be Mindi Doller @ Doller Offshore. She will be happy to give you an accurate price for the conversion. Her number is 954-237-0332. Hope this helps.
Tom

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Imco 1000 I heard is 35,000$,Smitty

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

I'm running with Max stuff as well. Works great. I'm a little bigger wiht more power and have not had a problem.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

That's pricey. :eek:

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Well, that's what it costs. It is reasonable when you consider an XR is somewhere near $7K, IMCO Extreme SC is $9K... Kondrad will cost you????? I blew two IMCO Extreme uppers last year. One was totaled and cost me $6K for the upper alone, the second drive cost $2K to repair.

Call Dean @ the bravo shop and see if he has any R&D drives, they'll run you $7500 but you may have to wait for them.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Did the motors have to be raised?

I shyed away because the cost was double and it would require to put hatch scoops on cause my motors were already 3/4" away from the bottom of the hatch. :(

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Yes the motors came up approx. 1 inch if I remember correctly. Our boat had Max Machine uppers with Imco lower 2" shorties on it before.They lasted a total of 20 hours with two failures.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

How heavy is your boat and how much tq/hp do your motors make?,Smitty

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Same here! That seems to be ther service life of a beefed up bravo in a boat like ours. :eek:

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Panther,
Glad to hear your boat is holding up.

Smitty,
The boat is a 2005 Sonic 386sts which is approx 9000 lbs. with twin Innovation 800's. Aaron at Max Machine said they would last.I spoke to him about a year before the boat was built. I told him about the weight and horsepower of the boat.He said they would work and they would cover the drive agaisnt "normal" breakage not abuse.
We had the first failure at 17 hours-the clutch shaft splines ripped off. Max Machine did the repair.They said the shaft was incorrectly hardened. Then three hours later the same drive blew. The upper gearset, destroyed the case,the "u" joint, bearings and snapped the input shaft in my coupler.This happened at 3700rpm. My peak torque is at 4700rpm. Max Machine didn't want to cover anything! They were just in that drive. Aaron said you think a 9000 doller drive is going to hold up to that weight and horsepower.He said it was abuse!

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

I was curious,seems like these 5000 lb hotrod boats can get away with upgraded xr style drives,even upwards of 1000 hp but the heavier boats (although yours is lighter than I thought it was) just absolutely need something heavier duty pure and simple. I assemble and rebuild my own drives so I'm always real interested to hear what people are breaking and whats holding up. The bigger,heavier boats seem to break different parts too,I have heard of guys with 38 and 42 ft boats shearing off prop shafts with 525 mercs and xr's,where several people with boats similar to mine (5000lbs w/800-1000hp)can get some life out of them but have lower gears chip away like mine do. I had a set of lower gears re-heat treated deeper this spring and am experimenting with them,so far they are holding up real well. If my blower pulleys weren't almost touching the rear seat and my motor almost touching the top of the hatch on my boat I would have probably installed a konrad years ago,Smitty

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Is a B-Max a direct bolt on replacement for a Bravo1?
How about with Imco hydraulic steering?

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Yes, it's a direct bolt-up.

Check with Dean on your steering.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Imco Steering works just fine. I have it on my Bmax. You may want new rubber spacers. IMCO has them for a few bucks.

Re: Bravo nightmares
 

Artic,
Have you ever considered a drive temp guage? Gaffrig makes one that I am going to install. I think with the limited capacity, that heat could be a contributing factor. Drew Marine makes a drive oil circulation cooler. http://www.drewmarine.com/products/c...coolswirl.html Any thoughts on if this would help with the added capacity, circulation? I applaud the testing on the hardened gear sets. I hope that you find some positive results with hardening techniques.

Ty