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3.5 Whipple on 496HO
My 496HO has roughly 185 hours on it and I wanted to know if there was any real danger in putting one on a new motor? I've heard the 3.5 pound kit is perfect for my model engine. I've also been told to wait unti the motor is older. What has been your guys' experience?
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Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Originally Posted by Bolts21
My 496HO has roughly 185 hours on it and I wanted to know if there was any real danger in putting one on a new motor? I've heard the 3.5 pound kit is perfect for my model engine. I've also been told to wait unti the motor is older. What has been your guys' experience?
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Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
What year is it???
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Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Supercharging on a 496 MAG or HO engine it does not have anything to do with the age of the motor unless its really old and tired. All 496 mags and HO's have the same pistons regradless of year and these are the parts that are not supercharger friendly. The 496's with a stock block are just sort of "allergic" to any real form of supercharging unless you go through the motor and install forged pistons minimum . Probably the most critical thing after that is getting the air/fuel ratios just right so not to burn a perfectly good motor down. The reprogrammin of the ECM is a must along with an upgraded fuel system and careful setup and fine tuning after the install. Seems that these type of install unless done by one of the better expierenced shops seem to have only about a 10% success rate. So be cautious, be careful and use a highly expierenced shop with real 496 supercharging expierence and references.!
Ray @ Raylar |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
SO IF YOU WANT IT DONE RIGHT :D CALL RAY AT RAYLAR THEY WILL SET YOU UP RIGHT :D I BELIEVE A 525 HP 650 HP AND 750HP THATS WHAT I HEARD FROM A RACE TEAM THATS KICKEN ASS :D PS YOU DON'T GO TO CAR GUYS TO BUILD BOAT MOTORS I KNOW FIRST HAND :rolleyes: SO DO IT RIGHT AND GO TO THE MAN. AND DO IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME :D
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Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Originally Posted by Raylar
Supercharging on a 496 MAG or HO engine it does not have anything to do with the age of the motor unless its really old and tired. All 496 mags and HO's have the same pistons regradless of year and these are the parts that are not supercharger friendly. The 496's with a stock block are just sort of "allergic" to any real form of supercharging unless you go through the motor and install forged pistons minimum . Probably the most critical thing after that is getting the air/fuel ratios just right so not to burn a perfectly good motor down. The reprogrammin of the ECM is a must along with an upgraded fuel system and careful setup and fine tuning after the install. Seems that these type of install unless done by one of the better expierenced shops seem to have only about a 10% success rate. So be cautious, be careful and use a highly expierenced shop with real 496 supercharging expierence and references.!
Ray @ Raylar That being saiid I think betitbig is the only one thats making some power with a Whipple on one... Rob :drink: |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Rob;
The stock pistons are cast hypereutectic with a very thin top land above the top ring. This is why they get in trouble with supercharging and not naturally aspirated. A little boost detonation and usually kaboom follows! We like to see the stock pistons stop at 550-575HP naturally aspirated and we go to forged above that. They live quite nicely at these levels. There are lots of boats running Whipples on 496's making over 750HP with all new forged internal specially built longblocks and Bettitbig is one of them. I believe he destroyed his stock 496 twice before he switched over to a custom built block. Yes, reprogramming the Merc ECM on a 496 motor with a supercharger is a MUST! |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Originally Posted by Raylar
Rob;
The stock pistons are cast hypereutectic with a very thin top land above the top ring. This is why they get in trouble with supercharging and not naturally aspirated. A little boost detonation and usually kaboom follows! We like to see the stock pistons stop at 550-575HP naturally aspirated and we go to forged above that. They live quite nicely at these levels. There are lots of boats running Whipples on 496's making over 750HP with all new forged internal specially built longblocks and Bettitbig is one of them. I believe he destroyed his stock 496 twice before he switched over to a custom built block. Yes, reprogramming the Merc ECM on a 496 motor with a supercharger is a MUST! rob :drink: |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
I know of several 496's with reworked forged internal blocks and new heads that are using about 8lbs of boost and are making right at 825HP. I beleive the block can handle more boost but the 3.3 Whipple has not been out that long yet. I am sure someone will go for 10-12 lbs of boost and jump into the 900HP realm soon.
Ray @ Raylar |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Originally Posted by Raylar
I know of several 496's with reworked forged internal blocks and new heads that are using about 8lbs of boost and are making right at 825HP. I beleive the block can handle more boost but the 3.3 Whipple has not been out that long yet. I am sure someone will go for 10-12 lbs of boost and jump into the 900HP realm soon.
Ray @ Raylar |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Profiler.
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Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Originally Posted by Strip Poker 388
Ray who else besides you makes heads for the 496?
Larry's Engine & Marine Tucson AZ 520-623-5373 |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Nobody that I know but us makes aluminum heads for the 496.
SB, Profiler casts our head in our tooling. Roush machines and assembles them. Profiler cannot sell our heads! There are some companies CNC' ing the iron factory heads, but by the time you do that and replace all the factory valves,springs, retainers, etc. You will spend as much as a pair of our aluminum heads, and they are a better product and weigh 100 pounds less a motor! Ray @ Raylar |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Originally Posted by Raylar
Nobody that I know but us makes aluminum heads for the 496.
SB, Profiler casts our head in our tooling. Roush machines and assembles them. Profiler cannot sell our heads! There are some companies CNC' ing the iron factory heads, but by the time you do that and replace all the factory valves,springs, retainers, etc. You will spend as much as a pair of our aluminum heads, and they are a better product and weigh 100 pounds less a motor! Ray @ Raylar |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
Originally Posted by Raylar
Nobody that I know but us makes aluminum heads for the 496.
SB, Profiler casts our head in our tooling. Roush machines and assembles them. Profiler cannot sell our heads! There are some companies CNC' ing the iron factory heads, but by the time you do that and replace all the factory valves,springs, retainers, etc. You will spend as much as a pair of our aluminum heads, and they are a better product and weigh 100 pounds less a motor! Ray @ Raylar So, since I wasn't that mentally clear when I made my first comment I'd like something else clearified if I could. I keep many comments / articles / etc,etc from Darin Morgan of Reher Morrison since I hold him up on quite a tall pedestal. Is what he says here true - meaning he helped with or did most or all of the design of these heads ? If so - wow! You have some 'top of the tops' doing this stuff for / with you. I found this in my notes. A quote from Darin Morgan from just the other day actually: These are the heads I designed for the 8.1 liter engine. They are marketed through RAYLAR engines. The stock heads are JUNK with a capitol "J"! Dont even think about trying to step the stock heads up with port work. The casting are thin, the SSR is way to high and the chamber is a total joke. The stock version of these heads are the worst I have ever seen come out GM. http://www.raylarengine.com/cylinder_head.html These heads are capable of producing a lot of power from the stock block and components. The new heads take less timing, gain over 65HP and improve gas mileage tremendously!! with the new manifold that RAYLAR designed the engine get even more efficient. You will have to ask RAYLAR about the specific increases. The heads where so bad that making them better was a snap. better in every single regard I might add. |
Re: 3.5 Whipple on 496HO
SB
Thank you for your comments and your comments about Darin Morgan. He and I worked closely on the development of our 496 -8.1L head design and you can also know that in the performance industry his cylinder head design and flow knowledge is second to none. Darin is a great guy and his knowledge and expierence in cylinder heads, are in my opinion the best in the industry. Darin and I also spent some time together working on a napkin at the PRI a few years ago on the design and characteristics of our intake manifold. I am really greatful we have some great companies and people on our design, development and manufacturing "team" here at Raylar. Three heads are always better than one. We just delivered our new HO525 motor to the Laveycraft race team for their raceboat. I am really excited to start the testing next week and see it run in there first race in Pittsburg, Ca. Regards, Ray @ Raylar |
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