Hey engine guys
 

will reversion always cause water on top of heads? I am trying to disect a problem that is kicking everyone in the back side. thanks...

Re: Hey engine guys
 

i just replaced riser gasket which was allowing water to go into cylinder and cause a miss in #7
if you are talking about valvetrain area i don't think so
you might have a cracked head also did you over heat it lately how many hrs are on engine?

Re: Hey engine guys
 

2 hours on last motors, 4 hours on ones before them. Never a heat issue, two seperate guages said motors never got over 165 degrees while running, and even after shut off only to 175 - 180. Oil presure was also good, no issues there....

no water in oil, we were checking every 10 minutes or so....

here is the kicker, on BOTH the last two motors that went down I had a merc certifed tech with me, first was on a test/tune run, second was on a poker run and a different tech was just out for the day with me, so while I may not have been quick to spot a problem, both these guys knew part of the reason they were there is to help find problems before they became disasters. That plan did not work.

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Check exhaust for water leaks. A friend of mine went through two seasons and 5 or 6 engines(I lost count) due to this. Beat the ballz off them on a dyno first and only lasted (at best) hours iin his boat. Replaced exhaust and been running all this season :D

Re: Hey engine guys
 

can you send name and phone # in a PM???? I would really like to poke around his experience as we try to fix this problem. Thanks!!!

Re: Hey engine guys
 

check all exhaut parts surfaces. They have to be all 100% straight, otherwise even with new gasket you may have water coming in. Get the metal part shaved.

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Who's/what exhaust system brand did he have that caused the problems? Just curious, thanks. Mark

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Dean, what is the same for all the engines you have fried? Water pump, exhaust, carb, oil filter, fuel pump, what else? Eliminate those that you are sure are not causing a problem. Then check them again.

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Also, if you could, please post some good clear photos of the engines in the boat.

Re: Hey engine guys
 

I will get recent photos today....

Yesterday pulled plugs, they look good, no signs of ignigtion or timming problems, no signs of piston metal on them, compression is good, but a horrible knock.....

So it sounds like lower end problem.... going back to GM this week for warranty claim, will have to see what happens from there....

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Try to post good pics of the failed part when you find it. If it is a bearing failure try and post a pic of some of the others also. There should be some telltales we can go after.

Re: Hey engine guys
 

dragging tow different machine shop owners to the repair shop this afternoon, and a digital camera. JK at 1800runsnew.com said go ahead and pull heads and oil pan and try to figure it out, that this would not void warranty, so we are going to see.

So far, compression is good on all cylinders, 125 to 150 psi, spark plugs all look good (very light tan, no black or gray), no water in oil or cylinders...

Even JK admits everyhting seems to have been done right, good intake, exhaust, carb, ignigtion, but of course wants to see himself....

Will post more tonight...........

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Okay, here goes, a lot of pics, we found GOBS of bearing metal in the oil pan and around the oil pump, looks like #5 and or #6 rod bearing, we were unable to uncap rod and main caps because of warranty restrictions.

From here I need the OSO brain trust to tell me what you see. THANKS!!!

Re: Hey engine guys
 

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Re: Hey engine guys
 

That first picture of the bottom end looks like shi*t. :eek: No idea about the cause but I know it is trashed.

Re: Hey engine guys
 

motor was brand new crate motor, less than 2 hours run time, I had a merc certifed tech with em when it went, and we were watching guages like a hawk and listening REAL closely..... motor gave about 10 seconds notice before locking up.

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Back to rigging - I'm stuck on that for now.

Where same oil coolers and lines used from engine blow up to engine blow up?

Where the oil lines installed in the correct position ? IE: in's and outs of block adapter and oil filter adapter ? This has been messed up by even competent people a bunch of times.

What kind of oil filters where used - any chance the same type , part #, every time ?

Was fuel pump 'vent' line hooked up to flame arrestor vent or accidently to carburetor vacuum port ? Seen hooked up to vacuum port a bunch of times - this results in low fuel psi....engine damaging low.

Is fuel psi being monitored ?

Is oil temperature being monitored ?

Has water flow been checked and every conceivable orifice that flows water black flushed and checked ?

Where engine's tuned (carb + timing) on dyno or very first trip starting with idle, then low speed just off idle, and then slowly up to heavy load - 75% or so + ?

Sorry for all the questions but with so many motors #1 I feel really bad for you and #2 you can only blame bad engine luck for so long before you thing 'there has got to be something else.'

Re: Hey engine guys
 

No, new oil lines and coolers each time a problem comes up, expensive as hell, but the only way I know to avoid that horror feel of knowing it was not done right before starting.


After reading that here I ask installer (also merc tech) to double check, and the guy who has it now said oil lines rigged okay.

Different filters, motor one was Fram Racing, Motor two was K&N

Fuel vent lines were okay, FIRST installer started to blow that off and I insisted so now I am sensitive.

No, new guages came late Friday, to late to put them in, new installer has them now.

No, Same as fuel psi

no, they were new crate motors, we did not check this

yes, with several checks along the way to verify plugs looked good and all.


Don't be sorry man, I apprecieate the questions, and I konw SOMETHING has to be going on. I am not used to this schite, I am used to doing it right, do it once, and do not re-do it, now I am re-doing it ALOT, and I am at wits ends, and a bunch of other guys who do this frequently are standing around scratching their head too......

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Dean ... what Exhaust ?

Re: Hey engine guys
 

lightening headers, they are being pressure checked, but I have no indication of water injestion or reverberation, the motor went down while running at a steady 3800 RPM...

Re: Hey engine guys
 

The plug pics are very blurry, but those porcilines look very white to me.
What do your mechanics say about plug readings?

Re: Hey engine guys
 

mechanics say plugs look fine, a little heavy on the fuel, sorry for the low quality pics of the plugs, hard to get close enough for detail and still keep focus.

There is a slight tinge of tan, no heavy soiling, or aluminum stanning...

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Just had a second, never before sene the boat merc tech look at oil lines, with Dean Gellner so adamant about tripple checking that I pulled another favor from a different client and got another opinion. All oil lines are installed correctly, both the merc techs who have looked at boat say the prior rigging looked very good.

Maybe I am just having a bad run of luck with motors, after weeks of beating this HARD we can not find anyhting to indicate a rigging problem, everything points to over tight bearings......

I will keep everyone posted on what 1800runsnew.com says, and how they respond. So far they have been excellent, within 3 days of calling for a pick up on the motor that went down they had a truck there to pick it up. Would have been two days but trucking company had a problem.

Re: Hey engine guys
 

Don't be surprised if they tell you that you over rev ed it.
That is a common used reason for denying your claim

Re: Hey engine guys
 

they may, but I had a certified merc tech with me when it went, and about 20 minutes before we went out we put the timing light on it to check the tach against the timing light, there is less than 50 RPM difference in the two at 4700 RPM's. I was concerned about that with a new motor.

We were running 3800 RPM when it went, and had only twisted it to 4700 prior to that.

So far the guys at 1800runsnew.com have been very straight with me, so I hope you are incorrect, as I am sure you do.

Man, we have beat this to death, trying to find the problem, but so far, we can find nothing relating to fuel, oil, oil filtering or dirt, heat, ignition, water flow, water ingestion or reverberation, or anything else. I sincerely wish someone could put a finger on something we are doing, if so I could fix it, but as it stands now, it looks like everything external to the #5 and/or 6 rod bearings is in exceptional condition and working as intended.



I will keep everyone posted as to what they said was the problem, and how they address this situation. The motor was picked up Friday.