To Force More Air or Not
 

I have a 2001 Nordic Heat. It has a 502 Mag with about 425 hours. We have been thinking about adding a ATI Procharger to get a bit more power/speed. I am unsure if this would be a smart idea or not. I am worried about the engine not being able to handle the procharger without being refreshed.

If I refresh, I would DEFINATELY like to make more power. What are some options that won't cause a second mortgage on the house.

I am also a bit concerned about the drive. It has a Bravo 1. Will it last? What if any upgrades can be done?

The boat also did not come with hydraulic steering. Is the hydraulic steering that is not helm back adequate? Does anyone have a steering system that they think is best?

Looking for some suggestions. I used to work on hot rod cars and know that the maring environment is different. HELP?

Brad

425 hours is not "fresh" but a formal leakdown test will give you what you need to know. If the rings are still sealing well, then it's your call. You'll need to do the heads, regardless, and make sure you have a wide exhaust seat sealing surface to pull heat out of the valve, and inconel ex valves are money well spent.

A Bravo 1 is at a disadvantage over 450 ft lbs of torque. Definitely plan on billet caps and frequent lube changes, but my guess is your drive will eat itself pretty quickly.

You steering issue is that you want to get away from using the TILLER arm inside the transom assembly. That is a weak link. There are some steering systems that use the stock steering cable from the helm, and if they connect to external rams then they are a massive improvement in eliminating the weak link, but are still inferior to full hydraulic systems tht incorporate a hydr helm.

The thought of that 5 or 10 mph more makes us all giddy. The question is really "what is it worth to you?" You can always run the supercharger and go faster, but you will definitely break more parts and go nuts looking for the perfect prop. In your situation, the "refresh" does not seem like an imminent proplem. Actually, a stock 502 should go twice your time with no problem. If your engine is running fine, then leave it alone. If you want the supercharger, then go for it and accept the risk of accelerated wear in the engine. How bad do you want to go faster? Oh.. The drive isn't a problem until you break it. There is no real way of knowing how far you can go. Mercruiser only went up to the 502 behind a bravo 1 and you take risks beyond that. You drive a pretty big boat on a single drive and I believe that your risks outweigh the rewards for a supercharger.

Just me,

Rene

I thought about a SC also, before I decided to up the hp on my 502. Add up the cost of a SC, head work, cam change, etc., it gets pricey. Then, what shape is your lower end in ?

Have you thought about simply rebuilding your 502 to make more hp/tq NA ? A NA 502 can make 625hp and still be reliable. Or maybe stroke it and go 540 :)

I'd add up the cost both ways, list the pro's and con's both ways. Then order more checks ;)

It never really ends :rolleyes:

I'm adding Whipples to my 454MPI's. Is it worth it? I dunno? Seems like fun so far. Aluminum heads, superchargers, drives, propellers, cams, engine parts, gaskets....they are tax deductible, right?

How much faster do you want to go?
Adding 100HP should gain you 5+mph.
I would suggest rebuilding your engine to make 500-525HP. There are lots of builders/tuners that have packages to do just that to your engine; Tyler Crockett comes to mind.
Your Bravo drive should live at this power level if you add a drive shower and change the oil often.

Reading between the lines I think I know what your asking,your refresh with good valves and misc parts will quickly hit 3-4 grand,the blower kit 6 grand and by the time you break a drive and upgrade it plus put the full hyd steering to the helm,props,ignition,bigger oil cooler and lines etc you will easily spend 20,000$. If thats not in your budget you will really be setting yourself up for dissapointment,these projects quickly spiral out of control and if your not fully committed up front you'll end up dissaponted when you start missing boating due to broken parts or a broken budget.There are a lot of things that go along with supercharging your motor that you need to budget into the equation to be realistic, I say this because I have done exactly what your thinking of doing and then some,Smitty

Stoutman,
There are several over on the Nordic section that have lived thru exactly with what your considering. (including myself)
Consider posting this question over there. The hull is not very rewarding to minimal added power.
You can make it fly but as Smitty mentioned you must budget up front if you want it to live.
Dave

This sounds like wise advice.

Stoutman,
As Dave mentions above, several of us have been down this road, and you can read about it on the Nordic forum. Since you have a 2001 (same model as mine), I can tell you from experience that it will take you an additional 17HP to gain 1 MPH. There are several proven mods for your motor that will get you into the 500 HP range with minimal expense. With this horsepwer level, your boat will still be driveable with stock steering, although I would recommend at least partial hydraulic. Remaining naturally aspirated will also ease the burden on your drive.
I would still freshen your motor (rings, bearings, gaskets, heads) and drive before doing any mods. AZSM has a nice modification for your motor consisting of modifying the intake manifold (cut down and extrusion honed), a new cam and ECU modification. Combined with some CMIs or other quality headers, you should see an easy 100+ HP from these mods.
If you are still considering supercharging, I would steer towards the Whipple. It is more expensive than the Procharger, but it is a more complete kit including ECU recalibration. This will also require freshening up your motor, and seriously beefing up your drive to at least XR standards to handle the additional torque, and hydraulic steering for safety and handling.
Here's pic of a Whipple setup (on a 565 TC motor) in a Heat. If you get into this project BobL on the Nordic forum (Nordic Dealer/Heat owner/engine builder) would be a good guy to talk to. We have some great engine men here, but unfortunately, you're on the other side of the country. Bob's in Texas, so he's a little closer to you. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
Regards,
Steve

Thanks for the input
 

Hey Steve,

Is that your boat?

I understand that the standard Bravo I was beefed up a little in our '01 boats. Is there an upgrade from that to the XR specs?

I have 3 daughters and my wife and we boat together every time and sometimes take a guest. Safety is the MOST important factor. I will do the steering first. I've thought the partial hydraulic will be a lot better than the steel tiller into the aluminum drive housing.

We tube with the kids. So, I want parent fun but want to keep it simple. I've seen the raylar kit here on this site and thought about that etc. I just don't know what the best option is for getting more speed reliably. My father in law had a 42 fountain with 572's running 7lbs of boost on Lake Powell for years. The boat was called the Thunderboldt. Was great fun to drive at lake powell and mead. But that was his only hobby and he spent TONS. Boat ran 100+. I'm thinking of trying to get 80 and that is it.

Anyway - I do this every winter and end up with 65.8 and a factory motor due to indicision - Wife is actually on the speed side.

I need a plan.

Brad

It sounds like you have a good plan.
If 80mph is your ultimate goal, go for twin ram full hydraulic steering.

Brad,
You have many options for that motor but a Raylar kit is not one of them.
They are only for the 496 8.1L motor.
Just one last note, to hit 80 with this hull is going to take some power that I'm not sure you can generate naturally aspirated without some "major" mods to the existing power plant.
Dave

I considered an engine package that took the 502 mag to 525-535 HP on my last boat but can't remember which builder had the kit. Ended up selling the boat because I wanted more LOA.

It takes 20HP for 1 MPH and let's assume the Nordic is a little better than that at 17 HP per MPH....it would still take an additional 255 HP to hit 80 in that boat. If you did it, it wouldn't be for long because the drive wouldn't last the summer. Mods that get it over 70 would be reasonable but steering is still recommended.

At 425 hrs I wouldn't consider a blower without a complete re-fresh...unless you like doing things twice.

Steering will be a must if your kids are as important as you say. (I have 3 little ones too)

I procharged a Baja272 and picked up 13 mph, 65 to 78, after exhausts, cam, ported/polished heads_intake and numerous computer reflashes. Procharger alone picked up 7 mph. Procharger is somewhat easier on drives than the Whipple as it makes torque only as rpm increases. Whipples torque comes on strong coming on plane which is what eats your drive with a big single engine boat. I did not break a drive in 3 years with a Procharger.

Procharger intercooler is aluminum and will corrode through in 1.5 years in brackish water, been there done that. New ones are $900 in Y2K $. Procharger is easy to install especially if you remove the motor for refreshing. No engine issues with the Procharger except the fuel pump fragged and spit aluminum into the injectors. Easy fix was to put a fuel filter on the pump outlet and wire the pump with big soldered wires.

With Procharger, engine rebuild, exhausts, single ram steering I spent $10K or $770/mph doing all the work myself. Not a good investment but I could shock a lot of 25-30' single engine boats so that was fun.

OOPs forgot there was also two or three props purchased during that time. Install procharger, buy a prop, buy another prop cause only gained 7 mph. Rebuild motor with improvements, new prop too small so buy another prop. Can't remember if that was in the $10K or not.

Brad,
Sounds like you are a lucky guy with the wife and kids. AZSM has a complete 572" Chevrolet with fuel injection priced reasonably, that shoud get you into the 80s. You will have to add hydraulic steering and I recomend trim tabs for low speed operation like skiing. They will also help you plane with heavy loads and keep you nose down at speed in rough water. I have a tab thread on the Nordic forum.
Your drive can be upgraded to XR specs. There are several rigging tricks that these boats like discussed extensively on the Nordic forum.
AZSM also has superchargers for your motor, and mod packages I mentioned above. www.azspeed-marine.com
There are many more engine builders to consider. You'll see some interesting stuff in the classifieds.
Regards,
Steve

I agree with smitty, If you have the jing do it all at once. If you don't freshen this year you will have no choice next, the drive is not going to live and I would ad hydraulic stearing. I like Smitty have paid my tuition regarding this. I don't know about 5mph gain I gained about 20. Do your homework and get the $ together first it's that or the trailer.
Bob

Brad,
My Heat is an '00 (stepped hull, same as yours). OEM power was 454Mag/MPI. It ran ~65-66 (on speedo, never GPS'd it, but no doubt it was actually slower). I put a Whipple on it after Merc warranty expired. The install was very straightforward & I can't say enough about the support from Dustin...1st rate in all respects. However, I did have to move my back seat forward about 1.5 inches & cut out a small section in the hatch (where it meets the seatback), then fab a filler section for the hatch so that it sealed with the seatback again properly. I don't know if the newer Whipple kits still have this clearance issue on the Heat. I also went with EMI Thunder exhaust at the same time. Dustin advised B1 28" prop & that seems to be right on (though I'm sure with enough time/$ a bit better performance could be had). Boat ran great on 1st startup after install; speedo now hits 80, but GPS is showing ~75-76. So, I did see about 14mph gain, but didn't get it to real 80 (my target) & from everything I've read on Nordic forum, it takes more HP than I'm making to get there. I don't know if a Whipple'd 502 will be enough either, but you'll be close. Been running the stock B1 drive (which is not quite as stout as yours, being an '00 instead of '01) with drive shower & new Redline Shockproof gearlube every year with no problems to-date. As others have said, keep it <3000rpm until on plane, & work throttle correctly in rough water & the B1 can live. I can say with no hesitation that the Heat with more power is MUCH more fun, & the acceleration with the Whipple (once on plane) is simply outstanding & worth it even if you don't break 80. Lots of great info on the Nordic forum. Good luck if you decide to go for it!
Regards,
Jeff

Your on the edge with your drive but it might last a long time IF you don't go any futher with your modifications. My 272 ran mid 70's with a 26 pitch/28 pitch depending on load,502 w/procharger for over a 100 hours (in the mid 600 hp range) with no problems from the 2000 bravo drive. I added ligthning headers,tweaked the ecm,turned up the boost and the first time out testing it sheared the floor out of the upper gears at wot trying to turn the 28 pitch 5200 rpm's. You reach a certain pont where it just becomes too much for the drive. The good news is that a stock bravo is holding up so if you do manage to break it a well built/upgraded one should last you several seasons with the stronger parts,Smitty

I totally agree,my boat still chine walked in mid 70's to low 80's with twin tam external hyd steering,went full to the helm and its fairly rock solid all the way to low 90's,Smitty