Crap - it's locked up - now what?
 

BBC 502 with carb and gill exhausts.

Ran fine last weekend - rinsed it out sunday night - no worries. Yesterday port motor fired right up - Starb wouldnt turn over. Cleaned connecters - checked all batteries - still wont turn over.

Pulled all plugs in case there was water in motor from all the rain or god knows where. Nothing comes out and still cant turn motor over.

Pulled starter and had it checked by a pro who rebuilds them for a living - it is fine. Re-installed and connected batteries directly to starter...it cant turn motor.

Got a 3 foot pipe and a big wrench - tried to turn motor myself - couldnt do it.

No water in oil or under valve covers.

NOW WHAT! Was supposed to leave for the Keys for a week tomorrow

Are you sporting trannys? What Drives?

ya got to seperate them to determin if it is actually the motor.

borg warner velvet drives and arnesons - I can disconnect them I guess....what are you suspecting?

Can ya spin the prop?
Are they 1-1 ratio in the trans?

Trying to make sure its the engine

yes - the shafts to the arnies spin - the trans are in nuetral.

Well sorry to say its most likley the motor.

Pull a oil filter and cut it open to see if there is metal in it.
Use tin snips.


The trans are not gear reductions are they?

There should be a stamp on the side.

yes they are - 1.5:1

I think it is time to walk away from this boat and take a breather.....we are going to go on vacation for a week and when I get back I will see if a decent mechanic can take a crack at it. When I first got these motors from Bills Marine they were an unfinished garbage man's pile - over a three year period and with two rebuilds and my replacing everything hokey I finally had some reliability. Now this.

locked up trans? Don't know enough about marine trannys myself. Is it difficult to seperate engine from trans?

before you panic, simply do this..... pull the plugs as you have done.... if you are ambitious, pull the intake manifold. pour a couple gallons of wd40 down the ports until the cylinders fill either thru the ports or the plugs... let it sit a few days.... then, thru the starter opening, use a pry bar against the ring gear in both directions... pulling a bar on the front pulley , puts you in the position to twist the nut off or loosen it..... the flywheel gives you best leverage.... i have seen cases where the rings have rusted to the bores very quickly and thats the end . it will not turn on the starter... BUT i have also seen them saved by the method i describe. once it moves at all, it will be fine... rotate it enough to clear the cylinders of liquid, spin it on the starter w/ the plugs out and then start it. start it and run it and while you may have lost a point or two of leakdown, you will be fine.

if i am correct in my assesment of whats happened its an example of why fogging the motors after running them is always a good idea.

Do it right, disconnect your transmission, verify that is not the problem then pull the motor. Dumping gallons of WD 40 into the engine may or may not relieve your problem, but ultimately you'll end up with more of a mess than a resolution. Skip the trip.

try turning it backwards, also remove the belts.

try turning to over with all plugs out and disconnected from the trans

Before you leave pull the spark plugs and squirt PB Blaster into the cylinders and let them soak while you're gone.

When you get back put a remote starter switch on the starter solenoid and a breaker bar on the balancer bolt. Gently push the breaker bar and hit the starter. It should break loose if it's just moisture/rust in the cylinders. Be careful, when it breaks loose the bar goes flying.

Did the spark plugs have any rust on the threads?

no rust on the threads and the plug tips were normal.

I like the above ideas and might try some of them tomorrow before I leave. We cancelled the boating part of the trip anyway at this point so ...if it can soak for a week - why not.

I'm betting on a locked up transmission. Can you spin the prop by hand with the transmission in neutral?

It has to be the trans. Even if the bearings were bad, it would normally turn over some. Small chance it's rings rusted to the bores. Be carefull with the 3 foot pipe on the crank bolt, it may break with that much torque.

All along I want to beleave its the trans.
If the Arneson spins then the rear part of the trans is ok.

I could never go away knowing I would have to come back to it.

Seperate the trans from bell housing.
Dont know what kind of rear engine mount your sporting
but if its between the bell and the trans and ya got the room you can sneak the bolts out and install a couple studs so you can slide the trans off without disrupting the engine.

I agree if it was a bearing on the crank it would creep

Good luck

Thanks guys - the trans is hydaulic and I can spin the shaft to the prop so it is in nuetral but who knows. If I can get it to turn with a bar on the flywheel I should be ok otherwise I might pull the trans when I get back from vacation.

Either way - I am filling the pistons with more 10W40 or whatever before I leave so it can soak. I might also try to put the counter-rotation motor's starter on this thing to spin it in the other direction a little.

Thanks everyone for your advice!

If ya do that with the counter starter make sure ya remove the
water pump belt

I looked at the plugs again this morning - no sign of rust or water at all....I'm thinking trans theory is making more sense too. I dont have the time to do it today so it will have to wait.

I can pull the u-joint drive shaft pretty easily (I have about four feet to work in rearward of the motor. Then I can disconnect the trans and pull it rearward enough I think to disconnect it. 100 lbs for that thing right? Gonna be rough on the back.

Then I can try spin the motor again with the starter (plugs out) and go from there.

Thanks everyone for your inputs - helps alot.

UPDATE: Well, the carb has not been off so it can't be foreign matter in the motor.

I put the counter rotating starter on the motor and hit the key - it wont spin in the other direction either. Plugs in or out. NOW WHAT?

I looked at removing the transmission but these are borg warner 71Cs and the rear of the motor is supported by the transmission stringer mounts. How do I remove the trans and not have the motor drop?
I might pull the carb and intake and soak the pistons more....what else can you suggest?

Please guys - pictures of what you would do to pull the trans would be helpful.

Many Thanks

i'm having a problem thinking it's an internal engine problem....

it ran fine on the flush process?? and you had good oil pressure?? nothin unusual.... no water in cylinders or oil.... no wierd noises...

seems to me something came loose in the bellhousing area, and the flywheel is locked against the block, maybe from a loose bolt, or something of that nature...

unless the crank is welded to a rod journal.....

My guess is that it is not the motor if it won't spin at all in either either direction.

A broken rod/other clearance problem should allow you to turn the motor in the opposite direction to temporarily "unjam" the clearance problem

I agree guys - so how do I back a transmission off when it holds two of the four stringer mounts? It;s BW 17 velvet drive and has two mounts on it's sides to hold up the rear of the motor....

Swamp -
Could it be the starter is jammed/hung up on the flywheel ??

I believe the coupler for the transmission has a spring damper in it. Pull the starter and put a breaker bar on the crank bolt. You should be able to see a slight movement in the fly wheel due to movement of the spring pack, if there is no movement then you probably have something stuck interanal to the engine like the rings being rusted. Had a similar situation in the past where the rings were stuck.

We dont have this figured out yet??



Where do the mounts bolt to the side of the trans or
inbetween the trans and the bell housing?

If it is between the trans and bell then you can make three
long studs and remove three bolts then screw in the studs
remove the other three studs and slide the trans back off
the studs. The studs will support the weight.


If it bolts to the side of the trans then you must attach
a chain to a couple of bell housing bolts and use a
support with a come along to take the weight of the rear
of the engine.

If you are not comfortable or understand the above suggestions then I would take it to someone who can swing a wrench.

Good luck

nope - I got it Knot right - but the boat is in the water and has side mounts. I will put a support plate to spread the laod and use a car jack to support motor while I pull back the trans...next weekend.

Loosen All belts,checking for a siezed alternator,sea pump,power steering pump.

If you have access to a bore scope look at the cylinder bores, then with the starter off look at flywheel bolts and for any debris wedged between the starter ring and bellhousing.

Then, you can remove the valve covers and look at the rockers and with the bore scope, look at the lifters to make sure the push rods are in there respective sockets.

Then you can remove the distributor and look at the distributor gear and bore scope the cam gear.(if you turn the motor with the distributor out you have to find top dead center before putting the distributor back in)

Good thinking !

yup---using a car jack will be fine as long as it is supported properly and will do no damage to the floor while taking the load----once you have them separated you will have a much better idea of who **** the bed so to speak----i also like the idea of removing all belts and accessorries from the picture in case any one of them froze up----unlikely though as there would have been at least some failure warning like a screaming bearing or growling noise----the frozen rings dont seem too plausible to me as you stated that the engine ran fine and then only sat a very short time------those problems are more inherent to an engine which has sat still for an extended period with no cranking or running----let me know how you make out and i hope its something you figure out without too much more misery..

Made a cross brace and used a comealong to lift rear end of engine. Pulled borgwarner and it spins by hand on both sides so it is not locked up - the motor is. I'm f'd and frankly done dealing with Bill's marine abortions....so, perhaps it is time to find two regular rotation long blocks with more juice - 540s perhaps, sell the motors I have, replace th borgwarners with something that can handle more power - 72Cs - and move on.
Problem is the boat is too big to trailer so I need to find a marina that wont rape me while I get this sorted out. Bummed.

I had an altenator lock up and the motor would not turn over until i cut the belt.......

pulled all belts a while ago - even disconnected the mechanical fuel pump.....it's the motor

Sad to hear...hate to see that happen to a customer.
I personally have 3 bigblocks in progress that are F´ed up by
(self) reputable marine engine shops here and the former customers for some reason chose me to do the "warranty rebuild".

Sorry to here about your troubles Swamp!

Any new updates?!

Hey Swamp:
I just noticed I'm in your area. Do you have this sorted out yet?
Call me if you'd like my help. (954) 895-4633.

Thanks for the offer Edward - I think I have a good guy to swap motors for me - very professional, clean shop. Now I need to find the right engine guy.

.....and money