Pre Lubers
 

I recently purchased two Masterlube Industries pre lubers for my boat. They seem a very logical addition to me. If they are as great as I believe them to be, why don't more people use them ? Why not everyone ? They're not really expensive. I also use Alysin oil. No one on this board seems to be familiar with it at all. All the piston aviation guys know the name well.

Just curious for input.

kind of interested in prelube myself; always my understanding that a disproportionate of wear occurs in the first several seconds of start up; more of an issue in boats that aren't usually fired up every day (Florida boaters excluded). let us know how it works out. -jeff

i believe that they dont hurt anything and do help. i've installed more than my gfare share.

I went with an electric Pre-Luber. I figured I may as well go electric for its versatility to be used as a pre-luber as well as an oil changer. This pump will empty my 12 quart pan in no time. Beats the hell out of sucking the oil out.

I have the standard accumulator tank style. I think it works. I know I store about 60 PSI when I shut it down. Has to go somewhere when I turn it on right?

I`ve always wanted to install a pre-luber, but have never stepped up and done it. I think for me, it`s probably the cost that`s held me back. They are about $250 right ? I can always think of other things to spend $250 on ... :cool:

I have built many, many engines over the years and have always wondered about pre-lubers. The fact I l always come to though, is that I have had absolutely no problems relating to lubrication issues ever. If an engine is properly blueprinted, I see no advantage to a preluber set up. I have torn engines down after years and years of service to do HP upgrades and have yet seen a problem in my case related to oiling. imho.

Pre Lubers
 

ghittner I see no reason whatsoever to doubt you in any way. However, I still believe in the basic concept of pre lubrication. I don't know what the typical engine build you do is. I believe most boaters don't need maximum output 100% of the time. Most go for long term reliability. I believe pre lubrication will aid in achieving that goal.

It would be difficult for anyone to prove to me that having oil everywhere in my motors prior to turning them over even once is not a good thing.

Thats another misconception. People think that when they prelube that ALL internal parts have oil. Not so. The motor would actually need to be spun over while prelubing in order to have oil threw the crank, up to the cam bearings threw the lifers then pushrods and rocker arms while bleeding off at the timing chain and clearances. The preluber is designed to make sure the oiling system is full and the crank has oil at start up.

But I do use them!:D

I bought my boat with them already installed. A couple people have told me to remove them. Since they are there I use them, but I don't think I ever would have installed them.

welllllllllllll... not really. if the oil pressure gage comes up you have oil everywhere that is pressure oiled. certainly none of the places that are splash oiled but all the oil galleries are full and pressured including the cam, crank and lifters.

pre lubers work well and are a good idea and worth doing on any engine you actually care about. a better idea are accumulators like the accusump and its variants that will protect the motor in a surge condition. there is another post running here about drysumps and the accumulator technology evolved to solve those issues in catagories where dry sump was not allowed and are a good idea here as well.

i spin my motors on the starter until the oil press comes up before i start them... not great for the bats and starter but better i feel better than starting them " dry" especially after sitting for a week or two.

i would be a LOT smarter following my own advice and doing an accumulator/preluber...

and i will

How difficult are the pre-lubers to install? What is the price and brands that you would recommend? Thanks.

the only systems i ever worked with were the accusumps. that system takes system pressure and stores it. others, i understand now, use small electrically driven pumps... my suggestion would be to go to google and read everything there is to read about all of them.

Pre Lubers
 

They can be very simple to install. Mine enter the oil system with a T just at the filter base. Pretty simple. I use Masterlube. Call Kerry @ 800/765-1243 or www.masterlube.net. He can answer any and all questions. They have been great to deal with.

The main thing you have to make sure you do is make all your fittings leak proof. That's really not a problem if you pay attention.

Call Kerry, he's the man !

Wouldn't your typical marine engine wear out for other reason way before cold start up wear would? Seems like high sustained RPM's, Harsh Marine Environments, lack of regular maintenance, poor quality oils, would kill a motor or at least require a rebuild long before repeated cold starts would?

Let's face it, the modern marine motor is a tough cookie. A brief low pressure oil situation and cold metal parts isn't exactly the kiss of death for a motor.

Pre-lubers, to me, seem like more hardware, more weight, and another point of potential leakage. Keep em simple. The big marine builders seem to think that way.

you think so ? i don't believe i have EVER heard a professional engine builder say that having oil pressure BEFORE you start a dry motor isn't as good as just firing it up and waiting for the gage to move..

everything will survive for some period of time no mater how you abuse it. point here is that the systems are compact, cheap and SOLVE a genuine and real issue. if you have any mechanical empathy then you do the right things to keep your hardware alive.

this is one of those things.

This is from a US Army document regarding diesel engines used for remote or emergency electric power
generation:

Consult the diesel engine manufacturer's manual provided with the engine for proper operating procedures and normal operating conditions. The operating procedures described below provide a general overview of diesel engine operation.

a. Prior to starting:
Prior to starting, the engine prelube pump should be operated to ensure proper lubrication of the bearing surfaces. The prelube pump for a standby unit should be operated on a regular basis to maintain engine in "ready to start" condition. All engine auxiliary systems should be checked to verify proper status for engine operation. Failure to properly prelube the engine prior to starting can result in damage to engine components and significantly decrease engine life.


May be engines sitting for a longer periods of time without being used can benefit if being prelubed before start up ?
By the way not all boat engines are used on a regular basis, sometimes they sit for months, so may be it is a good idea to prelube before startup when the engine has not been used for some time ?

The people that told you to get rid them, did they tell you why to get rid of the prelubers ?

Up the dosage stevesxm...the tranquility of Sint Maarten is apparently doing you no good :rolleyes:
Or perhaps those Merc engineers you so vehemently support in another thread just dropped the ball on prelubers and cold start issues? Please, please somebody save the tens of billions of internal combustion engines around the world screaming for mercy because they're not getting prelubed.
Oh wait...what was the that needs solving here? Oh yeah, my 16yr old/1151hr motors that don't burn oil and still have great compression are a miracle because they haven't been prelubed since the day they were built...:rolleyes:
:food-smiley-007:
Not trying to bash prelubers and accumulators here, they definitely have a place. Prelubers can make oil changes a breeze :D And any system that provides an emergency supply of pressurized oil is worth its weight in gold if/when it prevents a major catastrophe.

no. its the skill of those engineers that actually know what they are doing that have allowed those motors to last that long in the hands of buttheads that don't know how to treat a good piece of hardware.

i know now that its stupid to consider doing something that will help everything last longer as opposed to doing nothing at all.

i don't know how i could have missed that when i was studying engineering.

ill bet you drill holes in your thermostats, and run those additives that let you drain all the oil right out of your motor , right ?

If I have to give credit to an engineer, I'd give it to GM before Merc. And as much as I hate unions, I'd also credit the guys on the assembly line before I credited a Merc engineer. But above all, proper and regular service is what keeps these things running.
So you "studied" engineering eh? Do you actually get to "practice"? Or is OSO your little outlet for your quashed dreams? What you didn't learn in engineering school is that you can't engineer perfection; there's ALWAYS a tolerance, which you seem unwilling to accept. And YOU are the ONLY one that wants to do it YOUR way...

Riddle me this Batmen:
Which engine parts experience wear on cold startups (rank top 3)?
Which parts aren't effected by a preluber?

Can I answer this one. They are not in order, but, How is this.
Rings, Piston skirts, and Cam/Distributer gears. Hows That?
Bawana

No pulling fingers here. But the concept behind a preluber/
accumulator is something to consider. A wet sump piston motor would surely benefit. Understanding this is simple
if oil pressure drops the acumulator would provide a momentary fail safe. this in combonation with a warning lite/buzzer may actualy save a motor.

But then again I drink way to much vodka while I type
on this thing called the internet.

As far as solving a REAL issue, I don't necessarily believe that it is. Are you saying that my engines in my vehicles that all go 200K++ and are not blown or even have had major problems when I have sold them and some that have hit 300K miles would have gone further with a pre-luber? I am not at all conviced of that.. I am not at all convinced that a pre-luber would have made any of the bearings that I have inspected during my teardown of 600 ++ horsepower engines, 800++ HP engines, could have looked better than perfect after 5 years of service. Would a pre-luber have made them look better than perfect? I think not. How many engines have you torn down and inspected for wear after these periods of time? Curious I am.....??? All I can say is that a pre luber won't hurt an engine, that's all.....By the way, my $35,000.00 dollar hardware lives just fine without it....

WRONG! Bearings is the commonly part thrown out by the Pre-luber companies!!!

I was referring to the parts NOT affected by a preluber, that do have a tuff time during cold starts.
Bawana

Tha
Thanks for the clarification Bawana. My statement still stands.

Prelubers
 

ghittner, we all lived long and prosperous lives before ground wires were implemented into electrical wiring. Many of us even survived without seat belts. Diabetics even lived without insulin before it was invented.

We are safer today because most electrical circuits have a ground wire to drain off an accidental electrical short to ground instead of through our body. How many people have been saved by seat belts ? Quality of life for diabetics is better with insulin.

What's my point ?

Sure you can run any motor without a preluber. Sure they can last 1,000,000 miles without one, maybe. Might they possibly last even longer with better lubrication such as prelubrication ? Probably. If you ever have a really tired battery sometime late in the afternoon out in a cove a long way from the marina, you might be very happy you had a preluber installed. Your motor turns over much easier when prelubed. Just another "side benefit" of the preluber.

Just because you've done well before something new is invented doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. Not to me anyway. Do you honestly feel there's just no room for improvement in the lubrication area and that prelubing should not be considered an improvement ?

I said it wouldn't hurt.

Does anyone have irrefutable evidence that a "pre-luber" has extended the life of an engine (to any degree). There is an enormous amount of circumstantial evidence that it does, but who is supplying this information?

Now if your warming the oil and then using the pre-luber, you might be on to something, but to force "cold" oil through journals and tight clearances you had better have a pump that's got plenty of "grunt" and it had better be able to flow at least 6 gpm @ 80 psi. Otherwise, that pressure rise on your gauge is an indication that the cold thick oil has found its path of least resistance and you're not do any thing but wearing down your batteries.

How can a preluber coat piston skirts, cylinder walls, piston pins, cam lobes, lifter faces and or rollers?? If a preluber can not protect these surfaces then what good is it??

So you think that the diesel engines with prelubers driving emergency power generators have been fitted for fun ? Some also have preheating of the oil, but that is more to ease the starting of the engine in cold temperatures.
What about engines that have not been started for a very long time (may be years), they can not benefit either ?
New assembled engines ? No need to prelube ?

What about piston aircraft ? They are everywhere in that field. I guess it depends on your oil as to the cold viscosity. I use Alysin and by comparison to some I guess it's pretty easy to push through.

I think you're kind of answering your own question and pointing out the area where a preluber DOES actually make sense. I don't think anyone will say prelubers are bad. But they only "add value" in situations like you describe: looong periods of not circulating the oil.
We could probably get into a discussion about the differences between diesel and gas engines and their lubricating systems, and how long an engine can/would/should sit before being turned over/run.
But the original question was "why don't more people use them"...I think that's been answered.

Simple cheap and effective for us lazy poor folk. Pull lanyard and spin engine for 5 seconds, bump lanyard switch with knee and motor fires right up at dead idle. Replace lanyard after fetching dockmaid from ramp.

Lifters and top end componets only recieve oil at 25% of the crankshaft rotation ....So using the Preluber only flows oil to 25% of the Valvetrain ....m

But I guess 25% is better than zero % .....:ernaehrung004:

I don't like that approach on injection engines. I guess the kill switch only prevents spark to the spark plugs ? So the injectors will still work during cranking and during a cold start they will inject "larger" amounts of fuel. But may be that is not a problem.

We carry the Insta-Lube Line of pre-luber. Compare to to Master Lube without the added cost!

1 Qt $189.95

2 Qt $219.95

3 Qt $249.95

4 Qt $269.95

OSO discount given when you email us at [email protected]

Kirk

At times when my own personal engines have sat for long periods of time with out starting I pull the distributor and prime the engine. (12 months or more) When ever I rebuild an engine I always look at and study the bearings very closely. Engines with and without prelubers. I have yet to see any difference in wear patterns or anything as far as that goes. This might be one of those things where if it makes you feel good about having them then use them if not don't. My own project that I am working on had them and I am not reusing them. Only because of what I menitoned above and also I freshen the engines every 400 to 500 hours regardless. I am a firm believer frequent oil changes with todays oil is helpful more than anything.

Look at the Keith Eickert electric pre-luber. It will build 20+ psi and has an inline filter. Quick disconnect also allows for quick and painless oil changes. Pulls the oil from the bottom of the pan. Nice.