Surface Drives, Why NOT????
 

Can anyone give me a reason not to run a couple of Arnerson Surface drives or there is another company local here called Seafury instead of conventional legs. They dont break. They must put a bigger percentage of power to the prop and servicing is done with a grease gun. Am i missing something or not. Talking about a 35 cigerette with twin 750hp power.
Thanks and Mary Christmas
Jason

Well, If they worked well on a cigarette hull, wouldn't you be seeing a lot of them replacing bravos?

I know they put pulse surface drives on Zero Cavity (38 strait hull) and took them off, that ought to be a indication.

Ask arneson....... They have a really clean bravo conversion....

Price might play a huge factor...

I think the biggest factor is how far back they stick out....most people like to swim off their boats sooner or later and people dont like to be dodging some sharp meat cleavers when trying to get back onto the boat! :( Me personaly...i like em! think they look bad a$$...and see no down sides to them other then what i mentioned above

Surface drives are tough to dock with. They also don't work well on many hull designs. They've been around for at least 30 years in HP boating and still are a very rare sight. When they are seen, it's usually on a cat. As far as reliability, in a v-drive application you do lose alot of mechanical pieces which can fail and add horsepower robbing drag. If your setup requires a drop box, you're back to chains, gears, etc. and are now back to where you started.

No down side!! We are rigging a 42 fountain with a pair of ASD 7 Arnesons. Call Rick Wimp at Arneson (415-485-0788) He will give you all the info you need. Greg

Has anyone ever put Arneson's on a Cafe' or similar straight bottom 35' Cig?

I can tell you first hand that on my straight bottom 1997 TopGun Max machine Worx Bravo 2" shorties didn't work at all, we lost of speed and handling.The X will be way higher on a surface drive.

These hulls actually respond best to a 1/2" lower X dimension than stock Bravo height.

Stepped flat running hulls seem to respond better to the surface drives definitely not straight bottom Cigarettes.

Konrad will work well as there are no Bravo style drives that will live on that hull with over 700hp.
Good Luck!

The 97 TG was the worst boat to install shorties. The "X"'s on all 7 kevlar's made that year were too high to from the start. I tried 1 inch shorties on mine as well. The next guy who bought the boat changed them out.

I have had Arnesons and they are B-U-L-L-E-T P-R-O-O-F. Zero repairs and dozens of hours of big HP blower motors on a heavy cat.

I have spent more $$$$ repairing 6's then what Arnesons cost.

Will it require a litle more attention around the docks? Only in a V, not a cat. You will learn. No big deal.

I ran into a guy in the BVI's that had a 35 Cafe with Arneson style drives and he loved them.

First of all, Arnesons do not need a special hull to work upon. This is another of the misconceptions out there.

Secondly, as there are becoming more and more staggered Mercury products out there, people are starting to realize that it is not the drive that makes it difficult to dock, rather the setup.

Our drives dock just as well as an I/O with the same setup. Even better than A Bravo when our Conversion Kit is used.

Yes, we have non stepped Cigarette hulls with Arnesons and to no surprise, they work great. Check out the thread on speed wake of the 1999 38' Top Gun with the Arnesons. Might surprise a few people. Arnesons out perform any of the I/O’ out there. Even the Mercury copies. We’ve been around and used very successfully before the modern stepped bottom boats of today came along.

We can boast a speed increase over a Bravos on the Fountains, Cigarettes, Hustlers, etc. rather than a speed decrease.

As for Cigarette the factory, they are not going to do anything other than MERCURY. This is not an insult to anyone, just a compliment to their relationship with Mercury. It apparently is a very tight one that Mercury goes to a great deal of effort to protect.

Same can be said of several other boat manufacturers out there, Mercury will do nearly everything in their power to keep the manufacturer solely a Mercury equipped boat. POLITICS.

I am sorry, but I do not follow you.

Mercury and the others use gears to reduce, drop and change rotation.

Why should this be looked upon differently with an Arneson?

Arneson does not require a V drive, or anything special. Although we are very flexible in setups that would allow one to use a V drive if desired, but it is ceretainly not a necessity

Ouch..:hitfan:

First, you'll chop your appendages off. Secondly you'll put your eye out! Other than that, I think they are fast.

This reply above is why people are ignorant to reality.

First, show an example of some one who has lost an eye or appendage.

We have a propeller guard for the drives, while that might be something you did not know, it does not excuse your comments.

Sense of humor:D??? I almost bought a fishing boat with one of your drives years ago.. I liked it and it was actually the boat it was attached to that stopped me. It was faster than the bravo's I thought.. Ended up with an inboard anyway.

I was not offended at all. Sorry for the confusion. I took it as a slap to the Bravo worshipers.

Sorry to bust your balls, but it is not a joking matter when it comes to injuries. That is something to take seriously.

Other than that, it's all good.:D

You have to get the power from the engine's drive axis to the propulsion unit's drive axis. If you add mechanical pieces to accomplish that (chains, gears or whatever) you add mechanical complexity. It takes more power and increases the maintenance and possibility of failures associated with having more parts. I wasn't saying the Arneson wasn't as reliable. I was saying that when these additional issues were factored in, you had the same issues with both systems.

I agree on setup but what choices do you have? If you have the 16" drop boxes, that puts the props together when you angle the drives in to fit them on the transom. Backing up is like trying to push a rope.

I want a set of the bravo conversion so bad I'm thinking about taking the kids college money and send them to vo-tech. I just wish everyone would make the change to get cost down. If you are a long time boater and have enough HP to break the Bravo which isn't that much if you ask me, the change would be a great peace of mind. As far as saftey, educate your passengers and show them the meat eaters and I bet they pay attention. Now back to that college money with a pro install and a set of conversions est cost with extras?

Chris said push a rope. Hee hee hhe. I tried standing on a rope and lift myself up once, that was really hard too.

Any staggerd engine v is going to more difficult to dock. Each prop is pushing and pulling too close to the centerline of the boat to swing you around very fast. I would be telling the same people to be careful behind my six boat as my asd boat....gawd i wish I had one to bark at people about. My wife managed to mangle her toe plenty bad on a stock B1 prop.

I don't get this safety stigma with surface drives. The props aren't much shallower and off-plane, they're down pretty deep.

I read the 100+ MPH thread and it doesn't answer any questions at all for me regarding your product.

What I got out of the thread is the boat was fast, had to drag tabs and it also had a wicked chine walk in the video and zero information about how the boat handled at 0-100 MPH what it was like in turns or got on plane. Plus no information on all the "little tweaks" that were done to the boat.

That thread only raises more questions than it gives me answers.

we are installing a set of asd7 in a 38 formula in seattle if any body wants to go for a ride. just give me a call john at eastsideoffshore 425 822 5300 we flew to Cal and ran them and were sold they work great ! no more blown drives !!! they turn tighter than my #6 and have you ever tried to swim next to them? the drive has no sharp points !! the props are the same.

Never understood where the docking thing started... The Arneson boats that I've been in dock just fine, maybe it's the driver? As far as safety goes well, are props duller when you put them on #6's? I personally don't let kids, adults or anything short of a cat jump off the back of my boat. Safety is a huge issue around these boats, they're not jungle-gyms.

Is Greg working with you now?

Greg?

Guess not, he went north from here to work for someone up your way. Don't remember the name of the shop. He's a good mechanic and does some amazing rigging work.

Depends on the boat. My Express cat backed up wonderfully. My hustler 32 might as well have not even had a reverse gear. Reverse was a joke- it had 3 settings- forward, neutral and "other".

I've only owned a couple of surface drive boats and have never put the drives on a boat that wasn't rigged with regular outdrives. I have though owned alot of boats and have done alot of experimenting. When Rik says you need no special hull, I take that to mean you can bolt them to any transom.

In my own experience, I've taken a good running boat and slowed it down and/or made it handle poorly simply by adding something like extension boxes to the existing drives. I've seen boats that handle poorly, porpoised badly and in one case would almost not plane simply from a prop change. Now maybe you can successfully adapt an Arneson to any boat but what would concern me is the knowledge base- how many people have done EXACTLY what I'm looking at doing and done it successfully. If you have the resources ($$$) to do the experimenting and have a real desire to do something like this, then maybe they're a good idea. The biggst downside is prop availability and expense. Not everyone is going to be able to let you try their props to zero in on a setup.

True, like the old saying, "I've never seen something so simple be so complicated"

I first learned docking maneuvers with my V-Bottom single Alpha (think fiberglass repair). Since then I've owned twin straight-line inboards and V-Drives with no docking damage. Comparatively, my Cat with Arnesons' shifter response is prompt and precise. The only caution is with a Cat you need more neutral and less propulsion time as the shallow-draft sponsons glide so easily. Static draft at 22" with dynamic draft about 12"...

First of all, you don't need a 16" drop box to accomplish what is needed here. That is a setup from the early 80's, and it is not that complex as you stated as even the ASD8 16 drop box has requires less power to turn than a Bravo. That setup was there so that the boat could have a staggered propeller centerline and still have the cockpit of a side by side setup.

As for docking, please be fair. A stagger is a stagger. This is the same for a Mercury setup. There is absolutely no difference when it comes to backing up a staggered boat.

Take a look at the new on line magazine www.performanceboats.com and look at the online review of the Eliminator 43' Eagle. Listen to what they have to say about docking and maneuvering. Yes it is a MERCURY power package and it doesn't dock for crap they said. They were certain to make that a point.

So my point is I do not doubt that your boating experience with a Stagger Setup Arneson is difficult to dock in comparison to a side by side application. But it is the same for every out drive, not exclusive to Arneson. Your statement that Arnesons are hard to dock is not true when you take into account what the setup is.

From what I was told, I met the owner in KW and the rigger, Kolor Craft.

The boat had Bravos and some sort of power in the boat. How much I do not know.

The owner took the power out of the boat, put it in another boat and sold the other boat.

He then put the #7M's on the 38 Cig and put a set of blower motors making right at 1,000 hp they said.

They did not change the bottom, did not change the trim tabs or anything else. The boat originally went in the 80's I believe with the other power.

He put a set of 5 blades Merc propellers on it, and the boat ran 108 mph and the drives were over trimmed. New setup to the owner so he needs some more time to adjust. He said the boat has a lot more speed in it, just need better weather to get more out of it as it is cold in Syracuse NY in NOV.

I saw the video and asked him of the chine walking, he said tabs were full up, boat was full of fuel and had a load of people in it also.

So, I told him to set the tabs and see how the boat runs. Possibly change rotation if necessary on the propellers.

It was just a bolt on thing. No hull modifications.

Oh and the owner is happy as all hell he did the conversion to Arnesons!

When I say they work on nearly all hulls, it is true. Yes if there is a notch in the transom and someone wants to do a stagger then we have to address this will a filler plate but on a side by side installation, which is 99% of the boats out there, there are no issues.

We are only 2-3” higher than a Bravo propeller centerline. Not a huge difference. On some boats, (cats) we are the same height as a Bravo drive.

Plaining, there are the same as a Speed Master boat with a Speed Master Clever Propeller. The propeller does not know what drive is turning it.

I tried that once. Ran right into the boat that was towing me!

Here is some literature on the kaama surface drives,in relation to how far they stick out the back of the boat. Comparing the kaama,trs,and speedmaster#3. A little hard to see.

On a 2003 36' Spectre, going from standard length XR/Sportmasters to the "Bravo Swap" ASD7 Arnesons, what are the relative prop locations. I assume the Arneson puts the prop up and back compared to the Bravo's, but how much?

Also, my motors are located forward on the stringers, what needs to be considered regarding the transmission for the Arensons?

Yeah, what jbrauer said. Anyone done this on this boat?

the transmission is in the box on the asd6/7.... no need to move engines front/back or up/down... the only thing that you may have to do is fill the notch on the 36, you have to on the 30... the 36 may be different...

overall length of the 7 is 52 inches i think....

ROTFLMAO

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