water in oil.. (milkshake)
 

So i heard about this great forum and thought id check it out.. I just bought an 1985 28' baja with twin 454's which have been built up with a dart high rise intake, holley carb, roller rockers, and a perfomance cam (I THINK.. Not sure about the cam) The oil was changed just before i bought it.. I had it out on the lake for probably a total of 4-5 hours of running time and pulled the oil dipstick in both motors and have found water in the oil, and on the oil cap for the motor a buildup of white material (water?) heres what i think the problem is..

WATER REVERSION... if those are preformance cams.. the guy i bought the boat off of had headers but couldnt fit them on the boat so just hooked up the stock manifolds/risers.. I was thinking about going with eddie marine manifolds/risers.. for a total of about 3400$ for both engines.. i just wanted to make sure this was the problem before i started throwing money out.. any other ideas to stop this? what about just putting different risers on my current stock manifolds? throw some ideas out there and also include any other places i should check for possible water seepage into the engine.. thanks for your help

you may have a leaking intake gasket, very common

i thought about that, but whats the chances of both engines having that problem?

It's the riser gaskets no doubt.Been there done that.

Make sure you flush each motor out real well.

how old are the exhaust .... I'd pull them first to see if they are leaking inside.....m

Ditto or the head bolts in the water passage were not sealed correctly.

so you dont think its from using the stock manifolds/risers with the preformance camshaft?

Reversion causes water to be pulled back down the exhaust and it splashes the very hot exhaust valve which damages them. It doesn't put water into the oil of a running engine.

Intake leaks are the most common, then head gaskets. On spring startup, don't eliminate the possibility of ineffective winterization and some trapped water cracking a block.

I've had riser gaskets fail and hydrolock engines, sometimes bending the rods. It's not easy for water to get past the piston rings and into the crankcase.

Water in the oil can occur from condensation- the engine isn't getting warm enough to boil off the moisture that condenses in the crankcase. Be sure you're not mistaking condensation for water intrusion. Do an oil change and carefully mark your oil level. If it's not moving upward, you don't have a water leak.

so how would i check intake manifolds/cracked blocks.. ??.. i guess i have to start teardown on the top half of these motors to figure out whats going on...

Remove them, plug all the openings and pressurize them with about 40PSI. Any more and you'll probably blow out any gaskets.

As I wrote before, I'd check to see if it was condensation before I did anything else. Plus, how would the water get past your piston rings? If it filled a cylinder enough for water to leak past that tight clearance, the cylinders would still be holding water when you tried to start, resulting in lockup and probably bent rods.

Intake gaskets is the first thing I would look at.

What water temperature do the engines reach while running? Does the oil level rise? Like Chris said, it could be just condensation not boiling off from running too cool. That may explain why both engines are exibiting the same symptoms. Maybe just need to change to a higher temp thermostats...

if you are getting reversion, can get blow by (water in oil) it has to go somewhere. a friend of mines jet boat did it. Fixed the problem with the exhaust, changed the oil and was just fine.

I've heard this but I've never seen it.

This is the part that confuses me- in reversion, you're getting a small, reversed pulse, caused by the piston starting downward on its next intake stroke while the exhaust valve is still closing from the prior evacuation stroke. So lets say for the sake of argument that it pulled a small amount of water into the cylinder. The water now goes through the next compression, power and exhaust stroke with the air/fuel charge. How does this differ from the water that would be injected with a water injection system. I've used these systems more than a few times and never found water in the oil.

I don't understand that either, I agree with Chris in that the rings should stop the water if you have a leaky riser and the exhaust valve was open. If they don't then you have more problems then just the leaky riser/manifold.

i talked to the owner of a marine mechanic place over here, along with his head mechanic. they both told me this: if you had a cracked block/manifold/head/gaskets, you would see more water in the oil.. I only have a little water in my oil that traced down to the oil pan, also in the valve covers on the oil fill cap there is what they call "cheese" build up which is mostly water.. Theyre both sold on the idea that my cam is too big for the current exhaust setup, therefore letting the water go back through the engine. which leaves me 2 options, recam to original specifications, or keep upgrading, meaning new preformance manifolds/risers which are made to stop reversion.. do you think this senario is correct?? i just hate to throw 3grand at 2 new pairs of manifolds if this isnt the problem.

Do yourself a favor. Pressure check the water system including coolers before you go any further.

the engines both run about 120-130 all day long.. i dont think thats to cool.. what should they be running at?

Seems a little on the cool side to me. It really is a function of oil temperature. 212°F

another good reason to change your oil at the end of the season.

When pressure checking for water leaks would you put air pressure to about 20-30 LBS and if it does not hold it means there is a leak, correct? How would you find out where the leak is after you pull the intake and heads off? I have a new rebuild motor and hooked it up to the hose last night and it filled the engine full of water. When I did not see water come out the pipes I shut the water off. Pumped 12 gallons of water out thru the pan until oil showed. Motor was never started or turned over. Pulled water line from stainless marine exhaust and very little water reached them. There must be a massive gap someplace intake, head. Any suggestions?

That does not sound good at all. Must be a big leak. I would pull intake off first and check it.

Pull all your water lines off the engine. Block the inlet and exhaust. You can use an expandable rubber plug in the intake and buy a set of NPT threaded flanges for the block intakes. Plug one and attach an air line to the other, then put 20 to 30 psi on it. 90% of new-build water leaks are intake gaskets.

Unfortunately, now you have to question everything in your newly rebuilt engine. I would remove it and return it to the builder and have him go thru every piece of it while I watched. What else got missed?

On gasket leaks- when you see where it was leaking, it's typically very obvious.

I unscrewed the oil filter and there was no water......so at least I turned the water off before it got that full. Also no water reached under the valve covers. I removed the temp sender and was going to pressure the system from there.

Photo of the nice new motor, wish water was a good lube:cool-smiley-027:

120-130 all day is to cool...you will not burn out condensation at those temps, need 150-160 but also you need to find out what cams you have, wrong overlap will do this no problem, also the old risers/maniflods leaking will do you in. I have seen a lot of guys stick these big cams for auto use in boats only to kill the torque and end up with revision issues..don't keep running to much as it will take out the engines from the diluted oil...Rob

Just to update everyone on my problem....I have a cracked block. very disappointing after have it magnafluxed and told it was OK....Now looking for a dart M block if anyone here knows where I can get a deal on one. Sorry to high jack your thread 85baja. I'll start a new one....

:cool-smiley-027: It's strange that the same degree of oil contamination is in both engines, which means a design or build issue rather than a failure? I think I also would want to pressure test the water jackets on each engine to ensure no leakage - it's just too painful to have to do a rebuild in the middle of the season.

Hmm
 

I would disagree with sunkin on the water/oil issue. I had a formula 272 LS with the same problem. It too did have the older merc manifolds and risers that were not high/long enough to direct the water out the back of the boat. Motors were crate vortec 350's. They would simply eat the water as it came out the manifolds. Replaced risers, problem solved.

Anyone suspect a cracked block here? Has the boat frozen lately? If one cracked, they both could have. However, the fact that BOTH motors are doing the same thing, leads me to believe the risers are inadequate on BOTH motors. Changing to a higher/longer riser should do it. I doubt both gaskets are leaking identically on both motors. Agree with above poster...design issue. Get the exhast, this should solve your problem, and get a few more ponies too.