Timing retarding itself?
 

What would cause timing to retard 6-8 degrees under acceleration with a locked out msd distributor and the motor has cam buttons? It is a 350 with a med cam noting to crazy sounds like a chain streaching ?

Or a worn distributor gear.
Let us know what you find.

Brand new msd distributor no problem there I think

Dont know if boats have the same thing as cars, but a knock sensor will retard timing.

no sensors on this motor lol it is a 1980's small block in a race boat

Vertical play in the disributor shaft. Could be caused by worn gear or improper shimming.

What kind of cam? Roller, solid, hyd, hyd roller? I would say it might have chewed up the gear if the gear on the distributor is not for your type of cam. Everytime I have seen chains stretch they have destroyed motors... valves hitting pistons, etc.

Just trying to help a brother out.

Solid cam and lifters and the gear looks fine. It has bronze gear. Set the timing at 42 @idle rev to 4500 it retards to 37-38 Also @ idle you can watch the light back and forth slowly. Hmmmmm

See if the rotor is loose on the shaft under the cap. And are you using an advance light?

motor
 

Just a wild guess but standard rotating motor and dist they do make counter rotating .

Is the rear cam plug in far enough? If it's not in far enought maybe the cam is walking, even with the cam button?

Pull up/down on the rotor do make sure there's no play.

Checked the dis for play all is good. Just talked to the MSD teck line "nice guy" he said he has seen the timing cover flex sometimes with the cam button. Sugested I put a pry bar infront of the timing ocer while running and try putting preasuer on the cover and see if it changes?

If the timing cover is flexing, I have the original Keith Eickert billet alum piece that span across the front of the timing cover at the center of the cam. It has an adjustable bolt/screw that tightens to where it just touches the front of the cover. I have two that are black, SS spacers, etc. Never used...nice piece.

NEWS FLASH

Just put a big screwdriver between the crossover and the timing cover and WALLA no more timing retarding. Holds steady @ 38 degrees all the way to 7000 rpm. Now I just have to figure out how to wire tie the damm screwdriver in there so it wont fall out when racing :eek: LOL
Thanks for all the help. And to the guy in Dallas how much for the spacers?

Sweet. Glad you found it... and thanks for the update, I have been wracking my brain. I usually use belt drives in all my race car stuff and havent used a regular timing chain and cover in a long time and didnt even think about the cover flexing.

Motors are coming out this winter should I go with gear drives?

I dont know if you can do belt drives, but they help stabilize spark scatter and add about 10hp. I dont see why you couldnt run them in a marine app?? I'm not a big gear drive fan, but some are.

I am sure someone will chime in and let me know. BTW I like your avatar Ponch was my favorite LOL

How about $40 ea? I am looking at the "Lightning Performance Products" catalog and price sheet from 1989....Keith's first company pre-KEPP! I was only 12 when I bought these:rolleyes:
Price was $67 "Cam Stop Assembly"
I can ship then from OH on 9/5. I could also fax you a picture tonight or scan and post tomorrow. Let me know the plan.

Ben if you can get a pic that would be great. I will let you know what we are doing. Might just rig it for now and then replce the covers when we freshen up the motors over the winter.

Thanks

Mike

MIKE, buy them . Thats a good deal and is what you need.

C-YA !!

I've heard bad things about the gear drives.... Something about harmonics on the gear drives in a boat. Either Cloyes Billet double roller or Jessel from what I hear.

My counter rotating 260 Mercruiser had a gear drive from the factory. It had no idler gears so it made the cam spin in the opposite direction from the crank.

Never had an issue with it but only running to just over 5000rpm.

Gear drives = NO
Belt drives = YES

A new chain and new cover is just fine though.

My fathers boat also had a reverse rotation engine when I was a kid and didn't have problems either but the gear drive's with the idler pulleys he's referring to I hear there are a lot problems in boats. When I was a kid a few friends installed the gear drives in their cars because they wanted people to think they had a blower under the hood because of the whining noise it made....silly isn't it!

Here is the picture of the cam stop. If you are racing, you show have some sort of cam stop/movement control system.

gear drives eat up h/p so they will hurt the power, belt drives use the least, right now if you have steel front timing cover just bent the cover back with a bar or something, you just have to much clearance betwwen the the button and the cover, just do little at a time till timing stays...Rob

I found a bolt and nut on the timing cover hiden between it and the water crossover. Looks like just a small adjustment. This is the stuff you have to deal with when you did not build or install the motors yourself. LOL Thanks for everyones help.

Mike