Dana Marine refuses to sell replacement parts
10-10-2008, 09:19 PM
#51
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You spoke with Matt on the phone, and again, he was polite and explained the situation. My name is Bob.
We will not sell the seals. As previosuly mentioned, if there was a mis-understanding about the procedure on the cylinders, we do NOT charge customers to re-seal cylinders. No one is lying to anyone. I wasn't listening in on the phone conversation, but Matt is a very capable employee and he has no motive to create a problem. If he was not clear on the costing of the cylinders, I was in my last two post. There is no charge.
I know he certainly didn't quote you a price, because a price does not exist to quote. So any assumption of a charge would have been made by you.
Yes, we refused to sell the seals, I think everyone's got that. There's a good reason for it, and there's no need to go into details.
As far as the solenoids, we use Borg Warner products, and have extremely good results. We use an average of 3000 solenoids a year with absolutely none that have failed immediately. Some do fail over time, it's an electrical item, perfection cannot be expected. Out of the 30,000 solenoids we've used over the last 12 years, replacing 50-100 units doesn't seem so bad. Most of the failures were due to excessive corrosion.
As far as comparing Dana Marine Products to Trick Marine. That's a pretty funny thing to post. As you obviously are not aware, Dana Marine Products is not a fly-by-night shop such as the other mentioned failed company. As a matter of fact, we've been in business for over 35 years.
Dana Stettler started this company with a bandsaw, a belt sander, and a press brake. Starting from nothing and becoming an industry icon for over 35 years doesn't come because we conduct bad business. I'm not quite sure how the thread got started in this direction, but if you'd like to discuss our accomplishments and our business direction, get yourself a cup of joe, because we'll be here for quite some time.
The bottom line is, we're here to help.
Help us, help you. Send the cylinder back. I get your concern with the time thing, but what's the proposed alternative? Would you rather fix the cylinder incorrectly? -OR- have it fixed correctly so you won't have future problems?
We will not sell the seals. As previosuly mentioned, if there was a mis-understanding about the procedure on the cylinders, we do NOT charge customers to re-seal cylinders. No one is lying to anyone. I wasn't listening in on the phone conversation, but Matt is a very capable employee and he has no motive to create a problem. If he was not clear on the costing of the cylinders, I was in my last two post. There is no charge.
I know he certainly didn't quote you a price, because a price does not exist to quote. So any assumption of a charge would have been made by you.
Yes, we refused to sell the seals, I think everyone's got that. There's a good reason for it, and there's no need to go into details.
As far as the solenoids, we use Borg Warner products, and have extremely good results. We use an average of 3000 solenoids a year with absolutely none that have failed immediately. Some do fail over time, it's an electrical item, perfection cannot be expected. Out of the 30,000 solenoids we've used over the last 12 years, replacing 50-100 units doesn't seem so bad. Most of the failures were due to excessive corrosion.
As far as comparing Dana Marine Products to Trick Marine. That's a pretty funny thing to post. As you obviously are not aware, Dana Marine Products is not a fly-by-night shop such as the other mentioned failed company. As a matter of fact, we've been in business for over 35 years.
Dana Stettler started this company with a bandsaw, a belt sander, and a press brake. Starting from nothing and becoming an industry icon for over 35 years doesn't come because we conduct bad business. I'm not quite sure how the thread got started in this direction, but if you'd like to discuss our accomplishments and our business direction, get yourself a cup of joe, because we'll be here for quite some time.
The bottom line is, we're here to help.
Help us, help you. Send the cylinder back. I get your concern with the time thing, but what's the proposed alternative? Would you rather fix the cylinder incorrectly? -OR- have it fixed correctly so you won't have future problems?
His warranty sounds better then even Snap-On Tools at times!! Actually, I know it is. I visit quite a few people in the marine business weekly and I'd have to say that NONE of them would provide a warranty like what is being propossed here.
By the way, the exhaust is really nice. Thanks Dana -
10-10-2008, 09:30 PM
#52
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Hey SD Fever, Thanks for the post, that engine doesn't look too bad! I'd love to get some high res images of that bad boy for my new website/catalog. Especially the silent choice alignment.
Last edited by dana marine products; 10-10-2008 at 09:33 PM.
10-10-2008, 09:42 PM
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ZT260
This is the side of forums that irks the s*** out of me!
A customer has some sort of problem with a quality vendor like Dana or others who advertise and supportt this forum and others with support and technical assistance. Some boaters come on here and start bashing a supplier because you had a problem with a product that isn't even really a warranty period issue. The vendor tries to be nice and fair and even offers to repair the problem at his expense no cost! And you're still *****'en! This is not what OSO should be about and you should back off , get your problem resolved with the generous offer of the vendor and spend your time enjoying performance boating!
Like Abraham Lincoln once so elegently said, you can please most of the people most of the time but you can't please all the people all of the time!
I've worked closely with Dana for a long time now and many other quality vendors in this industry also and I can honestly say that most of them always go above and beyond, most of the time even at the expense of profit to provide quality products and stand behind their word and services. Be glad they do, there are a lot of industries where this could not be farther from the truth.
Lets be fair and nice here on the forums and work together to make this sport enjoyable for all!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
This is the side of forums that irks the s*** out of me!
A customer has some sort of problem with a quality vendor like Dana or others who advertise and supportt this forum and others with support and technical assistance. Some boaters come on here and start bashing a supplier because you had a problem with a product that isn't even really a warranty period issue. The vendor tries to be nice and fair and even offers to repair the problem at his expense no cost! And you're still *****'en! This is not what OSO should be about and you should back off , get your problem resolved with the generous offer of the vendor and spend your time enjoying performance boating!
Like Abraham Lincoln once so elegently said, you can please most of the people most of the time but you can't please all the people all of the time!
I've worked closely with Dana for a long time now and many other quality vendors in this industry also and I can honestly say that most of them always go above and beyond, most of the time even at the expense of profit to provide quality products and stand behind their word and services. Be glad they do, there are a lot of industries where this could not be farther from the truth.
Lets be fair and nice here on the forums and work together to make this sport enjoyable for all!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Furthermore, when you DO have a "really good" vendor like Dana and his willingness to step up, this type of thing will kill his good nature (eventually) and further take away any future incentive to continue down the road of being anything more than just "average". That's no good for any of us who seem to enjoy a sport that has been losing participants for the last 10+ straight years (powerboating in general).
Yes there are some not-so-good-ones out there but clearly Dana Marine is NOT one of them. I figue that if I want to stay in performance boating (which I do) than I'll do as much as I can to support the good people in it; both, vendors and fellow boaters. I don't think we can afford to loose any more good guys.
We could however, afford to loose some folks who think that "FREE" is not good enough.
10-10-2008, 09:54 PM
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Will certainly make sure you can see the Dana Exhaust better and make notes of the perfect foot print this system puts on a Raylar engine or even the stock 496.
Right now the boat is running 83.8mph and still may even see 84-85ish and it would not be possible without your system being in the puzzle.
I'll get those pics up soon but just been real busy running the boat!! Ray's engine has made this thing brand new again!!!
Cheers to Raylar, Dana Marine & BBlades
Last edited by SDFever; 10-10-2008 at 09:58 PM.
10-10-2008, 10:52 PM
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I think this thread is great. I learn a lot about human nature - there's just no pleasing some folks. Because I got the chance to see how Bob at Dana responded to this, I too will visit his site and likely purchase something in the near future. Zt260's is just digging his own hole. All the best to Dana Marine. - Jeff
10-11-2008, 02:26 AM
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I also buy a fair amount of products from Dana. I buy a fair amount of products because Bob, Matt, and Dana have BENT OVER BACKWARDS to help me out. I had a problem in the past with one of their new parts not fitting my boat correctly (when it was first released) so I tried to return it. They looked at my boat and said it will work and installed it for FREE. It turns out my mechanic who I initially asked to install the part wasn't trying very hard to make this new product work properly, so I stopped doing business with that mechanic. As far as I'm concerned I will check them first to see if they have/make a product BECAUSE I KNOW THEY WILL STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCTS LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO DO FOR YOU!!!!!!!!
ZT260.......you are the person that everybody hates to have as a customer, the (I can't possibly please this customer) customer. If you can't lift your engine hatch up by yourself I will have my 5'5 girlfriend come do it for you, you *****! Don't even bother trying to bash Dana Marine Products again, you're the one that looks like an ass! It's funny how you started this thread to make Dana look bad, but look how well that turned out for you! LOL
ZT260.......you are the person that everybody hates to have as a customer, the (I can't possibly please this customer) customer. If you can't lift your engine hatch up by yourself I will have my 5'5 girlfriend come do it for you, you *****! Don't even bother trying to bash Dana Marine Products again, you're the one that looks like an ass! It's funny how you started this thread to make Dana look bad, but look how well that turned out for you! LOL
10-11-2008, 08:59 AM
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Hi Gary, everyone always reads these types of posts, but they never really get to hear what happened that would cause such a disappointment.
You called us over 3 years ago to order a pull down swim step. Thank you very much for calling us, we appreciate any business we can get. I spoke to you originally and you were not sure who's swim steps were on the boat. You checked it out, called me back, and it was determined that you did indeed have Dana Marine swim steps on the boat.
We proceeded with the order for the 14" Aqua Step. The order was placed on May 5th 2005. The order was shipped on May 5th, 2005. We shipped the Aqua Step equipped with the mounting hardware for a Dana Marine swim step.
Upon arrival, it was discovered that you had an older version swim step that was not pre-drilled and tapped to accept the Aqua Step.
When you called and we spoke about it, it was determined that you would have to drill the steps to install the Aqua Step (which was standard practice on the old steps). Unfortunately, by drilling the steps you would require some different mounting bolts.
Yes, I did suggest for you to go to a hardware store to buy the correct bolts, but I also offered to send you different bolts.
Your quote of "go to the hardware store and make it work" did not come out of my mouth. I simply don't talk to people that way. My suggestion of finding the different bolts at a hardware store was nothing more than a suggestion to expedite your installation.
I think the main focus here is that we didn't ship you the wrong step, or we didn't take your money and run. It was a simple mis-understanding about the age of your swim steps.
Out of all honesty, I didn't think twice about suggesting the trip to the hardware store. I just didn't think it would be that big of a deal.
When I read your post, it comes across as if you had a serious problem with your order, or our phone conversations. I think it would only be fair to say that you were treated in a polite and professional manner, and at no point was there any negative words exchanged.
You called us over 3 years ago to order a pull down swim step. Thank you very much for calling us, we appreciate any business we can get. I spoke to you originally and you were not sure who's swim steps were on the boat. You checked it out, called me back, and it was determined that you did indeed have Dana Marine swim steps on the boat.
We proceeded with the order for the 14" Aqua Step. The order was placed on May 5th 2005. The order was shipped on May 5th, 2005. We shipped the Aqua Step equipped with the mounting hardware for a Dana Marine swim step.
Upon arrival, it was discovered that you had an older version swim step that was not pre-drilled and tapped to accept the Aqua Step.
When you called and we spoke about it, it was determined that you would have to drill the steps to install the Aqua Step (which was standard practice on the old steps). Unfortunately, by drilling the steps you would require some different mounting bolts.
Yes, I did suggest for you to go to a hardware store to buy the correct bolts, but I also offered to send you different bolts.
Your quote of "go to the hardware store and make it work" did not come out of my mouth. I simply don't talk to people that way. My suggestion of finding the different bolts at a hardware store was nothing more than a suggestion to expedite your installation.
I think the main focus here is that we didn't ship you the wrong step, or we didn't take your money and run. It was a simple mis-understanding about the age of your swim steps.
Out of all honesty, I didn't think twice about suggesting the trip to the hardware store. I just didn't think it would be that big of a deal.
When I read your post, it comes across as if you had a serious problem with your order, or our phone conversations. I think it would only be fair to say that you were treated in a polite and professional manner, and at no point was there any negative words exchanged.
10-11-2008, 09:52 AM
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Hi Gary, the brackets we sent to you were the same brackets that we send in every Aqua Step kit. Aqua Performance makes them specifically for our swim steps.
When we spoke, you gave me the year of your boat. From my best judment I determined that you would require the later model mounting hardware. Unfortunately, you need to keep in mind that Eliminator keeps alot of billet hardware in stock, and you really never exactly what you have. You could have a 2004 boat with a swim step that was built in 2002.
Anyways, it was a simple mistake, made by both parties. I don't see how I should be held fully responsible for knowing anything about you boat. Your 2000 miles away from me. I can only work off of the information I am provided. I can assure you that if I had your boat here, it would have been a very fast and painless installation (regardless of the provided hardware).
Once you attempted to do the install, you were able to get a good look at the swim steps. That additional bit of information that you were able to then provide to Aqua Performance would have helped our situation in the beginning.
The custom boat market is a difficult arena. You got 100 plus custom boat manufacturers who themself don't have one standard on assembling a boat. Every boat is custom fitted and hand put together to the required specifications on that day. Hardware changes like you and I change our socks.
Did you get hose braided lines installed ok that we recently sent out?
When we spoke, you gave me the year of your boat. From my best judment I determined that you would require the later model mounting hardware. Unfortunately, you need to keep in mind that Eliminator keeps alot of billet hardware in stock, and you really never exactly what you have. You could have a 2004 boat with a swim step that was built in 2002.
Anyways, it was a simple mistake, made by both parties. I don't see how I should be held fully responsible for knowing anything about you boat. Your 2000 miles away from me. I can only work off of the information I am provided. I can assure you that if I had your boat here, it would have been a very fast and painless installation (regardless of the provided hardware).
Once you attempted to do the install, you were able to get a good look at the swim steps. That additional bit of information that you were able to then provide to Aqua Performance would have helped our situation in the beginning.
The custom boat market is a difficult arena. You got 100 plus custom boat manufacturers who themself don't have one standard on assembling a boat. Every boat is custom fitted and hand put together to the required specifications on that day. Hardware changes like you and I change our socks.
Did you get hose braided lines installed ok that we recently sent out?
Last edited by dana marine products; 10-11-2008 at 10:17 AM.
10-11-2008, 10:02 AM
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It was a serious problem to me the CUSTOMER. The first time was the bolts the next week it was the brackets that you sent were the wrong ones. Let me explain to you how such a small thing to you can be a headache for your customer. I know I told you this on the phone. I live about 100 mile drive from the lake where I "keep" my boat. When I got my new boat it did not have a swim ladder for my 5 year old and wife to get up on. I called you and paid $400 for a aqua step to attach to your platform. It came in good time with no problem. The first weekend we went down I took the tools to install before taking the boat out. Bolts too short. Called you on monday and you DID tell me to go to the hardware store, you did NOT offer to send the right bolts. Got the bolts at lowes and headed down the SECOND weekend and drilled holes and than the brackets did not fit. Again called you guys on monday and you said that it must not be your plat frorm. Called eliminator and they said it might be Eddies. Needed to know if it had a hole on the end. Went down the THIRD weekend and took a picture of it. Called you guys on monday and described that it was your platform and than you started telling me the story about how this was made by aqua step. I will admit I'm not a patient person, at this point I don't give a fuk who made the step and how close the nearest lowes is. I hung up and called aqua step. They told me I was shipped the short bracket kit instead of the long kit . ( This is where customer service comes in) they told me to send the short brackets back to them and they would send me some long brackets. I told them this problem was going on for a month with dana marine and I HAD IT with the bolt and bracket issues. I said just take my cc info and send me another step kit that was right. She apologized for dana marine and said they would just over nite the right brackets and bolts so that I could have them for the next weekend (no charge). Thats customer service! If I'm spending $40, $400 or $40,000, I am the customer who CHOSE to spend my money with you. Don't tell me to go to the hardware store unless we are doing a experiment. So to you it was probably not a big deal. To me it was a useless boxed up ladder that took me a month to install. That is why I would NEVER buy from dana again. I have other choices.
You could very well be an exception to what I'm about to say but please give it a shot. Most or just about all boat owners that I've ever personally met or even just been around for a few minutes fail to realize 2 very HUGE characteristics about boats and boating in general.
1. Ninty-nine or so % of all boats out there are made up or comprised of some tens or even close to a hundred vendors in some cases. In other words one guy (or company) made the swim platform, another made the ladder, another made the door latches, another made the instrumentation, another made the engine, another made other parts on that same engine, etc on and on and on. Don't forget that half of those vendors are out of business or got bought by someone else.
2. Despite what the sales adds and all those happy faces at your given boat show say - owning a boat for anything longer than the first year or 2, maybe 3 can be one of the worst experiences of a lifetime! People go into with great excitement (as they should) but it takes time to find out the hard way that there really isn't a "Honda Accord" in the boat world.
I can't think of any toy or vehicle that can break the bank or be more frustrating to have to fix or work on. It absolutely sux at times! Most of us will have many, many of those chitty times. I've had my azz kicked so hard on the boat I owned before the Fountain. Also the Fountain has kicked my azz EVEN MORE in the last year badly and now I have to pull my engine again after I just put it in! (no one is at fault in this case)
I hate this boat more than anything for taking away my money and time but there is NOTHING that I LOVE more than this boat. This labor of love that we call a hobby truely is a love-hate relationship for not all but most of us I think.
Why did i type all this out? To hopefully help you understand that while your issue that you describe is legitimate; it was costly in both, time and a bit of cash; and it wasted some of your family's time on the water together; This is just part of ownership and all though I don't even know who "Bob" is and I have never spoken to the people at Dana, it does not sound like a severe break-down in customer service to me.
It sounds like the same crap we all have to go through in order to enjoy these things. Please don't take this as me defending anyone. I don't care if you hate Dana Marine. All I care about in this story is to share with you what some good people have shared with me. This exact story of yours is one of many reasons why there are so, so many pos boats sitting in the back yards all over the country. It's as much work and sacrifice as it is fun. But there's really nothing I'd rather do for fun!
Take care of you and yours. Enjoy that boat and the times you'll have with your peeps on board. It only gets worse but better!!!!!!!!
Sincerly,
jason
Last edited by SDFever; 10-11-2008 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Mispelling
