freshening a 454
 

just so i dont get taken
i'm planning on pulling my engine out next month and sending the short block to someone to be freshened up
basic rebuild , rings bearings , clean up cyl walls etc etc

just the lower end , heads were just done last year
it runs great , just has 600+ hours on it and compression is down to 115 on all 8 , just tired , no noises or problems

how much should i expect a machine shop to charge me
will it cost more if i supply a rotating assy (4.25 stroke) and a different cam to put it back together ?
its a stock bottem end 454 330 , pretty sure its cast internals
gen 4 , 1988 , already upgraded the top end

thanks in advance

Just because it is a "marine" engine should not effect the price of the machine work. Most things like boring, honing, align honing, square decking, rod reconditioning/sizing, balancing, etc, etc, or any other machining process should not cost anymore than what is being done to any other V-8 engine block. Now, if you need more machining processes to make the engine more reliable, etc , then that is another thing.

yea , i figured that with my low horsepower engine that automotive tolerances on the rebuild will suffice
the question is , if a machine shop quotes me 1200 bucks labor , is that a reasonable deal or should i keep shopping (that was just a figure i have pulled out of my head)

Actually, automotive tolerances will NOT suffice. Marine engine specs are (or should be) different than automotive specs if you expect the engine to live. I am only saying it shouldn't really cost any more $$$ for machine work.

I am going to stop at a local performance machine shop and grab one of their labor sheets and post it on here. It will itemize each individual machining process. It just depends on what/how many machining processes the short block/long block will require.

Make sure whoever or whatever machine shop is doing the machining KNOWS the differences in specs/tolerances between an automotive engine vs a marine engine.

Perhaps someone else can chime in on pricing help.

I usually spec what I want to have done. Bore, polish, line hone, Install cam bearings, vat the block, sand blast etc, and get it assembled as a short block, ready to stick the cam, includes gaping rings, pressing pins in pistons etc. for around $500- 600. Now this sounds cheap, but remember that I supply every one of the parts, freeze plugs, bearings, rings, block plugs, etc and I drop it off to them totally torn down and ready to go into the oven and vat.

If they wanted to supply stroker assembly, this will take a new rod and piston. ( around 15-1900) they will need to clearance the block also and if they supply good bearings etc.

You will need to spend around 3K with them.

You will just need all of this stuff done to a marine tolerance.

Good luck with your project.

actually jeff , we talked last year about you doing some work for me , i ended up bolting my stuff together myself and it worked out good for me.
if you wanna shoot me a quote if i ship my lower end to you and you put it together for me , i'd be very interested
as i said , theres been no failure to my engine , just in need of freshening , truck frieght is only like 150 each wy from Texas to VA , so if your competetive i'll keep my money with OSO brothers

Like I said. My machine shop bolts the lowers together for me. I cna get them to give you a quote. But up that way, you might be able to get someone closer. Unless you want the whole thing done, I don't really do just short blocks.

thanks Jeff , i appriciate your honesty
what do you think about the Scat series 9000 cranks ?
i'v seen a couple of places that are selling the stroker kit with that crank , forged rods and forged flat tops , with cleavite 77 bearings for 1200-1300 bucks , but the crank is a cast crank , but even on this site they seem to have good reviews

Actualy the last 2 stroker kits I bought came from Bill Lawson at ATECO. You can get parts from OHIO crank, or Shafiroff, or Cobra, or Dyno Flo all for around the same price. Just call around. For a couple hundred more bucks you can get forged crank and still have forged rods, and SRP or similar pistons. All stuff that is more than good for what you are wanting to do.

Good Luck

I Guess Ateco's website kinda answered my question
there 530hp 496ci marine engine has the cast crank in it , the forged is an upgrade
even knowing this if its a question of 200 bucks , i'll go forged just in case i decide down the road to get more radical with the ponies then the 475 i'm looking for

Go ahead and get a little crazy. Call RMBUILDER for a camshaft.

What heads are you using?

Square port chevys?

You should get more than 475 by default.

ENFORCER, did you give up on the blower deal ? or are you building a motor for one ? Rob

781 Casting large oval heads , was gonna use a cam thats a gen 4 equivilent of a hp500 carb cam ,

and ezstriper , i havent abandoned that idea yet , but when common sence took over , if i sink 2 grand into a blower set up , then i need to stretch the wallet to do the bottem end when it melts , and it will.
i'm gonna build the bottem end , see how that extra HP feels , and come spring if the need to go even faster is still there , i'll put the screws to it (screw type blower)

aside from engine mods , i'm also putting on sport tabs and external steering , kinda like brake upgrades on the hotrod , i wanna go fast but dont wanna kill myself doing it

then i'll give you a call to put the air conditioning in :drink:

Those are good heads. I have a 496 sitting here that I put the Merlin equivalent onto. makes areound 550. Have to use a header on it though. Pretty agresive cam. Might make more than that. never Dynoed it.

Bob will make you a cam for around 300 or so I think and you will like it a lot better than the HP500 dump truck cam.

Use an air gap intake, or eqivalent with that head for best results. You can have a shop do a little work on the exhaust ports, you can also have bigger valves installed. Those are great heads for a mild engine like that.

actually she's running like a raped ape with the Victor Jr 454-0and a holley 750 dp , the valves are stock size , it really build torque like a monster
and even after the bottem end i still wanna keep the redline @ 5200 or below
whats wrong with the spec's on the HP500 cam ? i've riidden and driven more then a few single hp500 boats and really like the power they put out , and the curve seems like its right on for where you need the torque and HP in the mid and upper ranges , of coarse the only things i can compare to are 454's and 502/415's in similar boats

These are all just suggestions for even more fun.

454-0 is a good intake for what you are doing also. It will bring in more power on the upper end of the spectrum.

With the longer crank you will need a little more duration, but you should contact bob for his opinion. He is the cam guru.

It will also depend on your exhaust set up.

thanks Jeff , before i buy a cam i'll call or IM rmbuilder and see what he thinks about my particular setup

He is not any more expensive that rane or comp. you get a better product and you get better knowledge. He is a hell of a lot cheaper than Merc.

Good luck and have fun.

what I was leading up to, I have a complete 177 marine blower set up, also a 482 blower motor set up, with without heads, and I'm close to you...also a trick 850 flowed blower carb, I did not want to to the steering that my boat needed and I have my 2 sons that drive my boat.....

talk to me , put some $ on it
you can e-mail me @ usedpartsgod @ gmail.com

Most of the time clearances would be fine, but since you are having the work done get it the way you want it, I had issues this year running too tight of clearances I believe, so I loosened them up and ran a better bearing, i am running .003 on mains 1-4 and .0035 on rear with HV oil pumps, spring shimmed .095 to get a little more pressure, I get 75 psi cold and after a good run 40-50 at idle. I also spent the extra for coated bearings, just to make sure I covered it all!

With the oval port heads, you can run a little more duration on the cam and still have a good idle and good torque. I would run a cam like the Merc 525 cam. Or just run the Crane 741 cam. It would be a good match to your engine.

does the "741" cam slide in the gen IV ? i was under the impression it was for V or VI

741 is the grind/ profile number.

When you order the cam you tell them flat nose, early generation IV, or step nose, late generation VorVI.

Yeah to what he said!

Hey Enforcer...before you make a final decision on your engine you should call Ateco. They do long blocks and short blocks plus exchange engines. My buddy got an exchange engine this summer and is very happy with the results. Ateco did my engines 4 years ago and I've had no problems. They're real well known here in the Great Lakes area, so they must have a good reputation. Can't hurt to check them out first. Bill's a good guy to talk to whatever you decide.