genIV cam selection
 

I searched and didnt find the answer in the first 2 pages , although i'm sure this has been asked before

i have a GenIV 454
can i use a gen V or gen VI camshaft ?
i dont think the gen VI has a lobe for the fuel pump , but i can get around that with electric , i just dont want to have to machine the block for the lifters

as always , thanks for the help in advance

NO...you cant...and you do not have a Gen IV 454. What you have is called a MK-4 (Mark-4). Naming the BBC a "GEN" started with the Gen 5.

If you are wanting to put a cam in...use a Crane #139021 and lifters...use Crane #13235-16. The lifters are listed as RETRO-FIT and you will not have to do any machining at all. Be sure that you get a thrust button for this roller cam.

i have heard them being called gen IV, V, VI but anyway the gen IV and V cams interchange, but not the gen VI, Rob

enforcer,
I am going to differ with the rest. You can use the late model Gen VI cams in any big block. Almost all of them have the two bolt holes for the cam retainer plate. You will have to use retrofit style hydraulic roller lifters, but that is no big deal. I prefer to use the late model cams because the retainer plate does away with the hassle of a cam button and adjusting end play. You will also have to use a Gen VI timing set, but once again, no big deal.

I am almost certain that Erson offers a late model cam with a fuel pump lobe too.

If you have any questions, feel free to call or e-mail.

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

NO...YOU ..CANT.

A MK-4 is all by itself...you CAN NOT put a Gen 5 or Gen 6 cam in a MK4 and you can NOT put a mk-4 cam in a Gen5 or Gen 6. If you dont believe me...call Crane, but you are going to give advice to someone who spends $400.00 on a cam that will not work. It doesnt matter if a Gen 6 cam has a fuel pump lobe or not...a Gen 6 block doesnt have the ptovision for the mechanical pump.

I just put a pair of Mark IV cams into a Gen VI 575SCI with no issues. Well, actually, I originally got the wrong timing chains, but have since resolved that. The use a Mark IV chains, solved it.

I've got a gen V 454 apart right now, the solid roller cam is the same as a gen IV !! have them laying side by side ?? now the gen VI has a different front for the timing gear...

LMAO here at you guys...no worries...you go ahead...claim and believe whateeeeeeeeeeeeeeever you want, but when you start talking about what you have done to others that know the difference and you see them looking at you with this funny look...remember that I told you here FIRST...you are wrong.

If you go to the Crane web site and cam shop...you will also see that the MK-4 cams are all different number listings than cams for the Gen 5 or 6...and AGAIN...the early BBC'c are NOT referred to as Gen 4 motors. You really need to review your history of the BBC before you say things. You can even learn WHY GM started calling the BBC a GEN series motor instead of a MN-5 (Mark-5).

One thing tho...you guys ARE intertaining. I am waiting for you to explain how you installed a cam for a HEMI in a small block...then get a different timing gear set and all is well...this is going to be good.

Bill is correct, YES you can.
Get a copy of Dennis Moores book, he explains every detail.
Same explanation as Bill K. (Who is also well known in the business!)

Or get ahold or RMBUILDER he can custom grind anything. He has done all of mine and does a great job and is worth every dime. Think outside the box, get a cam made exactly for your engine build specs.
He also can have thel cam made with a fuel pump lobe too.

cam
 

Hey Enforcer 24,i have a great cam ,lifters,springs and pushrods for your engine for sale right now,healthy cam,mean idle,just sent back to comp for a clean up and inspection,it has about 11 hrs on it,also have the pushrods,you can have it all for $500,the lifters alone are $650,this is a roller setup,still in my engine,email me at [email protected]

PSlonaker,

Not trying to get into a pissing match but you are wrong. I am presently rebuilding a pair of Mercury 575 SCi engines. These engines are GenVI. Straight out of Merc Racing, there were Mark IV cams installed. I just had RMBuilder grind me 2 new Mark IV cams. I can assure you, the cams are Mark IV and fit these Gen VI blocks.

Vinny Did you have any problems with cover clearance using the mark 4 chain & gears inside the 6 cover?

PSlonaker, will all do respect, your totally wrong.

The reason there are 2 different parts #'s, is b/c the Gen6 motors have a stepnose, that works with the plate that BillK is taking about. All you need to run a gen6 cam in a MKIV block, is the Gen6 timing chain kit, that comes with a timing set, retainer plate, and bolts. Its like 60.00.

My friend is currently runing this setup, and it works great. Much better deal than setting up the endplay, etc.

racinfever,

Yes, I did have some trouble, but it was mostly due to my lack of knowledge in this set-up. This thread explains it..

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...chain-set.html

P,
You dont have to believe any of us here on the forum if you dont want to. Pick up the phone and call Crane, Comp Cams, Erson or your choice of camshaft manufacturer and ask them instead.

Afterwards please come back here and tell us what they said so that we will all know the correct answer to this question.

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

I have a feeling we may not hear back from mr. lonaker....

You will hear from me...I dont turn tail and run a so many others do. I will look into this somemore, but I have always been told what I have said...it wont work and I will stick with that until I actually see it work. The basic difference in the cams is a step on the front of the cam on Gen 5 and 6 whereas the step is not there on a MK-4 cam. The step is for a retainer bearing, but not all blocks have the provision for this. I have both types of cams and a few motors, so just for fun I will stick one in and see what happens.

And...it is Slonaker...not lonaker

well some of the confusion my come from the fact they made gen V with a std flat tappet cams, and I believe some with roller, so that may be why crane list differnent part #'s, also just because they list diff #'s thats no proof that they still won't work...how many other times you have used a part with a # from something else....Rob

ok , if i'm getting this correct , if i purchase a gen6 cam for my mark 4 engine , i need to buy retrofit lifters , and the timing set for the gen 6 , that will have the retainer plate

Bill K , whats your direct e-mail ? i may need some machine shop services come spring time , and everyone says your the man around SOMD

I'll take experience over what a freakin' website says any day!

It is not a bearing, just simply a retainer plate to stop the cam from walking forward. The Mk IV's did not need them since they used a button the rode against the timing cover. Most all Mk IV blocks have 2 tapped holes in the front near the cam to accept the retainer plate. So you can in fact run a Gen VI cam in a Mk IV block. Have done it many times. It is much easier than messing with a cam button to get the right end play. I don't know why you would want to run a Mk IV cam in a Gen VI block, but you can if you want. You just can't use the retainer plate. The only reason would be for availability of a particular cam.
Eddie.

I think you are right here. I guess I need to "re-think" my thinking. One thing about me...as I said earlier...I do NOT turn tail and run...from anything or anyone. I might loose a battle and win a war, or I might win a war and loose a battle...but I will also admit..."MY BAD" when I loose both the battle and the war. Learned something here. So let me get this straight...If I want to use a Gen 6 cam profile in a MK-4 block, I need to get the Gen 6 cam as well as the Gen 6 timing chain set...Is this correct..and a retainer plate if the block is drilled for it? What if the block is not drilled for the retainer plate...cam button??

Boy , i'm sure glad i didnt stir up a bunch of chit ,
if nuthing was asked , nothing would be learned
2 years ago if you asked if 496 manifolds would fit a 454 , there would be a 50/50 split of people saying yes and people saying no , now we all know that they do
my reason for gen 6 cam into a mark-4 is a 500efi cam on ebay thats @ 110.00 with a couple of days left , and i know i need more cam in my engine
i'll probably buy it anyway , and if my block doesnt have the holes for the retainer plate then i'll turn around and sell it for cost to someone who needs a good deal

You will still need to buy retro-lifters.
Call RMBUILDER and see what he would charge to grind a custom cam for your application. You will be money ahead in the long run, you never know what you are going to get off EBAY:eek:

THe best thing to do is have a cam cut for yourr specific application and then get another one when you change again. Different engine set up, different cam every time.

I have put the stepped nose cam in a MARK IV block several time and have had no problems. I even used regular MARK IV roller lifters in one and havn't had any problems.

Wether this is the most logical way to do something is argumentative, because the designs were changed for a reason. You do need a timing chain for this application. THe MARK 4 won't work. THe MARK IV lifters worked because it was a very small cam. I do remember that the push rod length had to be change, but I don't remember why (besides them obviously not being the right length to get the correct geometry).

Do what you want to do. 9 out of 10 times that you buy a used cam shaft, you end up having to get a new one anyway.

Just get one ordered for your application. A custom, billet core roller cam is only around $400 anyway, and it will perform better, and you won't have to monkey around with it to make it work.

Good luck

Why bother? The EFI cam? What are you planning to accomplish?

You might as well get one of those cheap flat tappet hydralic cams from crane and a set of $100 lifters. You will have the same outcome, or maybe even better.

Send a message to RMBUILDER, or one of the other guys on the board who do this stuff on a regular basis. Save yourself the heartache and stress.

what he said ......:drink:

I would just go with a crane or comp retro fit hyd roller for the block you have and be done with it...also all the gen IV blocks I've seen are already drilled and tapped, one of the engine I took apart reverse rotation crusader ran the cam gear to gear(so the cam would turn correct direction) and had the retainer plate installed from the factory...Rob

i do appriciate all the input , and believe me i AM listining
and lucky for me its wintertime , 16 degree's outside this morning , pass up on the cam on ebay , and i still have several months before i'm taking away from boating time fooling with my engine upgrades

That's warm, its so cold here Santa's sled will not run:eek:

Boating is only a few months off, its time to get a game plan together so you are ready when it warms up. If you purchase a cam and lifters from RMBUILDER it takes a few weeks (it was 3 weeks for me last Feb).

Get out from behind the couch and get to work:party-smiley-004:

Turn around has gotten a lot faster. I ordered for a customer last month and lifters showed up 3 days later and cam 5. :drink: Just depends on what kind of volume is going on at the cam shop.