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-   -   Roller Cam Upgrade (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/201691-roller-cam-upgrade.html)

jeffswav 01-18-2009 01:30 PM

Roller Cam Upgrade
 
I am thinking about switching out my flat tappet for a roller cam. I have done a lot of reserch and have I think I have it narrowed down to a few diffent cams.
Heres is my current setup.
Gen V 489 Stroker with 8.9 compression all forged internals
Holley MPI with 42lb injectors laptop progamable
EMI exhaust with long risers and O2 sensors
Large Oval 820 Heads 2.19/1.88, gasket matched and ported
I do not have any flow numbers but they are very similar to 049/781 except for a smaller 110CC chamber
My current cam is a

Lunati 30219
540/550 lift
230/235 duration
114 LSA

Here is what I have been looking at

Crane 268761
598/610
230/236
114 LSA
4/7 swap

Crane 169621
Same as the 268761 no 4/7 swap

Crane 139671
610/632
236/244
114 LSA

The 168731 looks like a good cam but I need 114 LSA for MPI

Any input would be appreciated.

formula 382 sr-1 01-18-2009 05:14 PM

I have two cams out of Hp500 one carb one EFI with lifters . The carb cam is 222/230 576/598 .$ 275.00 plus shipping. The EFI cam is 230/236 598/610 dyno time only $ 450.00 plus shipping. :cool:

1BIGJIM 01-18-2009 07:58 PM

Contact RMBUILDER ([email protected]) and have one custom made for your application. He has done several for me with great results. He can set you up with everything you need.

KAAMA 01-18-2009 10:59 PM


Originally Posted by 1BIGJIM (Post 2780682)
Contact RMBUILDER ([email protected]) and have one custom made for your application. He has done several for me with great results. He can set you up with everything you need.


I agree..."RMBUILDER"/Bob Madara of Marine Kinetics in N.Y. 585-654-8583. He is the cam guru and helped a lot of guys with custom cam combinations for marine offshore hi-perf engines----and it wont cost you anymore than a new "off the shelf" cam that you will pay from popular manufacturers.

Also, no offense to anyone, but you probably should not pay more than .50 cents on the dollar for a USED cam (i.e. $175 or so).

jeffswav 01-19-2009 09:21 AM

I sent Bob an email. I will wait and see what he thinks. I am in no hurry I have a few months before for boating season.

jeffswav 01-19-2009 09:49 AM

I just got off the phone with Bob. He will be getting back to me in a few days.

5050 01-19-2009 06:46 PM


Originally Posted by jeffswav (Post 2780482)
I am thinking about switching out my flat tappet for a roller cam. I have done a lot of reserch and have I think I have it narrowed down to a few diffent cams.
Heres is my current setup.
Gen V 489 Stroker with 9.3 compression all forged internals
Holley MPI with 42lb injectors laptop progamable
EMI exhaust with long risers and O2 sensors
Large Oval 820 Heads 2.19/1.88, gasket matched and ported
I do not have any flow numbers but they are very similar to 049/781 except for a smaller 110CC chamber
My current cam is a

Lunati 30219
540/550 lift
230/235 duration
114 LSA

Here is what I have been looking at

Crane 268761
598/610
230/236
114 LSA
4/7 swap

Crane 169621
Same as the 268761 no 4/7 swap

Crane 139671
610/632
236/244
114 LSA

The 168731 looks like a good cam but I need 114 LSA for MPI

Any input would be appreciated.

I would use the 500efi cam and be done with it, you should be close to 500hp, wouldnt go any bigger than that Crane 268761
598/610
230/236
114 LSA
4/7 swap

CB-BLR 01-19-2009 06:57 PM

Another vote for Bob Madera... the guy really knows his stuff.

My dyno guy has been building circle track motors for 50 years and is very respected in my area. When he dynoed my last motor with one of Bob's cams in it, he was so impressed that he called Bob, and started using his cams in all his marine motor builds.

Chris

formula 382 sr-1 01-19-2009 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by KAAMA (Post 2780801)
I agree..."RMBUILDER"/Bob Madara of Marine Kinetics in N.Y. 585-654-8583. He is the cam guru and helped a lot of guys with custom cam combinations for marine offshore hi-perf engines----and it wont cost you anymore than a new "off the shelf" cam that you will pay from popular manufacturers.

Also, no offense to anyone, but you probably should not pay more than .50 cents on the dollar for a USED cam (i.e. $175 or so).

I am using Bob Also this winter, As for offending me no you have not. but a new cam shaft from Summit $435.99 Lifters $565.45 , 3 hours on a dyno for $450.00. Less than $0.50 on the dollar. :drink:

Griff 01-20-2009 01:51 AM

I thought it was priced hig at first also, until I saw it came with the lifters. With lifters, its a very good price.

KAAMA 01-21-2009 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by Griff (Post 2781667)
I thought it was priced high at first also, until I saw it came with the lifters. With lifters, its a very good price.

Yeah....I guess I missed the lifters too! :party-smiley-004:

jeffswav 01-21-2009 05:21 PM

Thanks for all the input. I am in no hurry seing that it is January. I am going to see what Bob has to say first. I gave him all the specs and he said he would get back to me in a few days. Eveyone seems to think he is the cam guru. He thinks I should up a cam for 5400 RPM. He thinks 1HP per inch should be easy to make.

jeffswav 02-10-2009 09:21 AM

Anyone keep in contact with Bob on a regular basis. I called him and emailed him on 1/20 and he still has not gotten back to me. I called today and got his machine.

formula 382 sr-1 02-10-2009 05:15 PM

I talked to him last week . He will call you back, just call and leave another message. He may have a little bit of work this time of year it takes time to call everybody. He will spend more than a minute or two with you when he does call you.

Joby

jeffswav 02-10-2009 05:53 PM

He called me back today and said he was pretty backed up. He is still putting the cam specs together.
Thanks,

jeffswav 03-18-2009 08:27 PM

Just wanted to give a update on my project. I have the engine tore down and eveything looks good. Only have about 60 hours on it since the last tear down. Bob has had an answer for every question I have had. He is setting up a cam with .595 lift int/exh and about 226/230 duration @.500 with 112 LSA. I am not sure of the exact specs. I inquired about the 4/7 swap for HP and it apears that with port fuel injection I would not benefit. I gave him the OK yesterday and I should be getting the Cam soon. I will let everyone know the results.

KAAMA 03-19-2009 09:54 PM

I am sure you won't be disappointed----keep us in the loop. :)

jeffswav 04-08-2009 08:52 AM

I just received my cam yesterday and I installed it last night. I am getting the rest of my parts in today and tomorow. I hope to have it fired up on the hose this weekend. Besides the cam I also purchaced a Marine DUI distributor with computer controled timing.

getrdunn 04-08-2009 11:53 AM

Be sure and take a video clip with sound when you got it running on the ear muffs / hose.
John
I have a very simular set up with the exception of being fuel injected and can't wait.

PS Thanks for the PM's

rssteiny 04-08-2009 04:57 PM

I will be calling bob soon as well for 2 cams for my 500hps im all tore down and ready to start putting back together. boating season is getting close.:ernaehrung004:

getrdunn 04-09-2009 09:31 PM

Crane 268761
598/610
230/236
114 LSA
4/7 swap

Crane 169621
Same as the 268761 no 4/7 swap



Crane must have messed (misprint) up with the RPM range on the 169621


Part Number: 268761 Grind Number: HR-230/352-2S-14 IG
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description

Engine Size Configuration


Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT

Lift: Intake @Cam 352 @Valve 598 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 359 @Valve 610
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 33.0 BTDC 79.0 ABDC 292.0 °
Exhaust 84.0 BBDC 34.0 ATDC 298.0 °

Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 99896
Loads Closed 150 LBS @ 1.900 or 1 29/32
Open 454 LBS @ 1.310
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 1800
Maximum RPM 5800
Valve Float 6400

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 6.0 BTDC 44.0 ABDC 109 230.0 °
Exhaust 57.0 BBDC (1.0) BTDC 119 236.0 °

Remarks:
FIRING ORDER: 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3



Part Number: 169621 Grind Number: HR-292-2S-14 IG
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1996 Up CHEVROLET 8 HYD. ROLLER WITH CAST IRON DISTRIBUTOR DRIVE GEAR
Engine Size Configuration
454-502 C.I. V

Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT

Lift: Intake @Cam 352 @Valve 598 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 359 @Valve 610
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 33.0 BTDC 79.0 ABDC 292.0 °
Exhaust 84.0 BBDC 34.0 ATDC 298.0 °

Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 99896
Loads Closed 150 LBS @ 1.900 or 1 29/32
Open 454 LBS @ 1.310
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 3000
Maximum RPM 6500
Valve Float 6800

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 6.0 BTDC 44.0 ABDC 109 230.0 °
Exhaust 57.0 BBDC (1.0) BTDC 119 236.0 °

getrdunn 04-10-2009 11:15 PM

Are you going to have a Happy Easter or what. Be sure and keep us tuned in regards to your engines new addition.

jeffswav 04-11-2009 03:07 PM

Still missing a couple of parts. The 16 AN Bravo inlet fitting needed a 45deg fitting to clear the engine. I ordered it from Summit and it should be here tuesday. Looks like I will try to shoot for next weekend. I wound up going with most all of Bob's suggestions. I am using the PBM HR lifters (moral), Isky 8205 plus springs and a special timing chain. The timing chain has billit gears and a chain with that has been pre-streched. While I was at it I had my valve covers and timing chain powder coated with a blue "mirror" finnish. They should be done monday.

getrdunn 04-12-2009 06:55 PM

I am excited for you and hope you continue to keep us posted with the results from running in driveway to clipping across the lake.

getrdunn 04-12-2009 06:56 PM

Did you get your springs and lifters from Summit also?

jeffswav 04-12-2009 08:16 PM

I got the Cam, Springs and Timing Chain from RMbuilder. I had a credit with my machine shop and he supplied me with the lifters. I used the PBM premium lifter made by Moral. Bob can put a complete package together at a good price.

jeffswav 04-16-2009 06:42 PM

Ok, I got my Isky springs today, took them to the machine shop and they should be done tomorow. I just hope to get the timing chain tomorow and I will be set for assembly this weekend.:ernaehrung004:

MER Performance 04-16-2009 07:05 PM

Glade to see you got a good set of lifters, whats the part # they make a STREET ROLLER LIFTER thats not for use in a marine engine. Those lifters are privite lable and the company that manufactures them perfers the we do not call them Moral. Thats why they have PBM, Isky, Howards on them to name a few. You'll never see the manufactures name on them. Just alittle info. People don't understand that sometimes and they think they were shtted.

jeffswav 04-16-2009 07:25 PM

I used the PBM lifters (morals), Isky 8205 plus springs, PBM 3/8 pushrods. I am reusing the PBM retainers, with new locks. Here is how I plan to adjust endplay. I am going to install the timing cover without the gasket and adjust for a snug fit. Then remove and reinstall the timing cover with the gasket. I took a closer look at the timing chain cover, it seems to be pretty ridged. If I notice a problem with cam walk I will find a way to tie into the bypass crossover.

MER Performance 04-16-2009 07:28 PM

Whats the part # of the lifters?

jeffswav 04-16-2009 07:49 PM


Originally Posted by MER Performance (Post 2845957)
Whats the part # of the lifters?

PBM's part number is RL931. They were not advertised as Morals, howerver I understand they are made by Moral. They apear to be very good quality, very smooth wheels, the machining looks perfect.

jeffswav 04-18-2009 11:30 AM

I got the heads back from the machine shop yesterday. Bolting them up today. Still waiting for the timing chain. Maybe next weekend I can fire it up.

jeffswav 04-21-2009 02:47 PM

Ok, I learned alot today about setting the endplay on a roller cam. I installed the new rollmaster timing chain that Bob recomended and attempted to use a alluminum cam button/retaining plate that I allready had. I was looking for a number between .005 and .010 and I had .04 on the micrometer. After pulling the button out and taking it to my machine shop we found the button was .03 shorter than the one his book called for. I ordered a Roller Button and should have it tomorow. Bob thinks If I would have just assembled it that way and not checked endplay it would have went BOOM!! Should have just ordered the Roller Cam Button last week per Bobs advice.

jeffswav 04-23-2009 10:47 PM

Project update. Replaced the stamped steel factory timing cover with a rigid aluminum cover. If I had my choice I would have gotten a Cloyes adjustable 2 piece or a IMCO. Cloyes does not make a Gen V cover and IMCO would have set me back another 4 to 5 days. I got the camshaft endplay set to 7 thousands, checked the pushrods and I may be ready to go tomorow. Calling for 80 degrees mild wind.

formula 382 sr-1 04-23-2009 11:03 PM

Let us know how it runs !!!! :ernaehrung004:

jeffswav 04-23-2009 11:19 PM

Thanks for your interest. This has been a learning prossess for me. I have been working on engines since I could hold a wrench in my hand. This was my first experience with a Roller cam. If anyone is attempting to do the same as I have, be sure to include a few extra things that I did not know would be needed. Here is a short parts list.
Custom Cam RMbuilder
Moral Lifters (may be labeled different)
Isky Springs
3/8 pushrods
Rollmaster DR timing chain
Aftermarket timing chain cover
Marine gastet set
Roller cam button/shims
Be prepaired to spend some money.
NOTE:
A lot of guys are doing the Gen VI conversion on Gen V blocks. If you do this you will not be able to use a Double Roller chain. You will have to use a single roller.

getrdunn 04-26-2009 12:26 PM

Just wondering what timing chane cover you ended up with. Make & Part # wold be appreciated. Also what length pushrods you ended up with. I am or will be facing your same issues here real soon.
Thanks,
John

jeffswav 04-27-2009 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by getrdunn (Post 2852883)
Just wondering what timing chane cover you ended up with. Make & Part # wold be appreciated. Also what length pushrods you ended up with. I am or will be facing your same issues here real soon.
Thanks,
John

Do not use the cover I used it required a lot of work adjusting the cam button. I would use the adjustable Cloyes if you have a Mark IV, or the Imco. I cannot remember the pushrod length, if I can find the package I will let you know. I did all of this in the boat. It would have been quicker to do on a engine stand.

jeffswav 04-27-2009 01:52 PM

Just a quick update for anyone following my post. I got it running on the hose Sunday. I had a small oil drip coming from under side of the new timing cover. I think I can fix it with a little RTV sealer. Also my Narrow Band O2 sensor went out again:mad:. I am upgrading the the Wideband Kit and should get that in a couple of days.:evilb: I have to send my PCM back to Holley for a firmware upgrade included with the kit. The Engine fired up and sounds Great!! Does not sound much differend than the old cam but idles very smooth.

getrdunn 04-27-2009 08:46 PM

Thanks for keeping us updated. sounds like this got a little more involved than anticipated however I am sure you will be happy in the long run and hopefully soon.


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