single or dual ram?
 

Guys_

Is it worth the extra $900 or so to go twin ram hydraulic steering over single ram? For example: Mayfair dual ram full hydraulic = $3300...... single ram = $2400.

I think the performance difference is related to the symmetry in effort required to turn one direction compared to the other. Right?

The boat is a Formula 271 Fastech....low to mid 70's. Thanks.

I would go dual ram.

I have yet to hear any scientific reason for going dual ram on a single engine V. I'd save the money on the 2nd ram and go full hydraulic from the helm back.

If it were me, in your speeds, I'd go single. A fast cat hull, single engine, running 100+ I'd go dual for a couple of reasons.

This may not be a scientific reason for dual rams, but there was a thread not too long ago showing broken gimbals, and the dual ram setups actually holding the drive in place. If you were to come off a wave at an angle, and break a gimbal, there is more of a chance the dual ram set up will keep the drive in place. Also I believe it helps stabilize the drive and and absorbs side loads as well. I think a lot of people are jaded, when it comes to speeds that modern boats run. Especially if your running hard in rough water, 70's is moving. Spend the money for the extra bit of safety.

Just my.02 pesos.


Darrell.

Unfortunately there isn't a scientific stand point or speed # since since water conditions and driver style also play such a role in this area. In your particular V-hull application we reference a single ram full hydraulic system will work fine as this system meets 90% of a single engine V-hulls demands nearing the 80mph mark. .

For those of you who haven't checked we are revolutionizing the hydraulic steering market our Mayfair steering dominates most applications through new designs and lower than ever pricing. for example the pricing referenced in this thread is for "Full Hydraulic" systems.

So if your considering upgrading to hydraulic steering make sure and give us a look.

Sincerely,

Hardin Marine

I would go dual ram and a full system. I installed a Hardin system on my Hustler a few years ago. Nice product, and it was the best bang for the buck.

In the 70's you will be fine with a single. I have a single hardin system on my Donzi X-18. It runs low 70's. I can't say enough good things about the system.

I have an IMCO twin ram on my 26ZX. I went with IMCO on that because someone practically gave it to me. It is a nice system too. The boat runs well into the 90's and I would use a Hardin Twin Ram system on it ANY day.

Unless you are driving in some serious stuff, I would go with a Hardin single in your application unless you want to blow basically another grand to be symetrical.

Dual ram!!! Install a load meter on the high pressure side of the steering ram and let me know what pressures your seeing at 70.. Blow out a single ram and you will go in circles trying to get home. Spend the $$$ and have piece of mine..

I have never heard of anyone blowing out a single ram from that in this type of application. Those rams can handle some serious pressure.

Tell that to my friend who flip a 24 eliminator and killed his girlfriend.Single ram broke on a bravo running a 496 @ 78mph!! 1000$$ is well worth the extra safety besides all components will last alot longer.Let me know if you see a P class race boat with 525s running a single ram..He ask the question and take whatever advice is giving but I would give up a few weeks of gas money and purchase two..\
Just my 2

WHAT HE SAID !!!! Plus Imco has complette sets for around2500 bucks twin ram.

Wow, that's the first story I have heard like that. That is a bad story.

Then I would say it like this:

Single over nothing - go single
Twin - even better

I have talked to lot's that pass on steering systems because they are scared to spend $4,000 bucks. Those I tell to at least go with a single.

I still don't think it is fair to compare the conditions faced by a race boat to a pleasure boat though.

You can buy am IMCO full hydraulic twin ram system for $2,500? You should advertise that. You will have them going out the door all day long at that price.

.

I still don't think it is fair to compare the conditions faced by a race boat to a pleasure boat though.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the driver and water conditions. Twin drives dont bother me as much as a single just because the opposing rotation pushes againest the tie bar!!! Single drive even at low HP #s loads the drive in only one direction and a hold hell of a lot after flying.. I set all standards by what we learn from racing!!
Poker Runs have the first stops 10-30 miles running WOT. A good OSS race now days might have a 3-5 mile straight. Even the Bud Boat will only average 110-120 around a coarse..I have been in my fair share of flips and wreaks and I try not to put price over safety..Good discussion but a single bravo will kill you just fast with 500 hp than my 40 skater with 2600hp.Due the math 2600 hp running 4 rams / 650 per ram divided by 2 because the props turn in..All so if you run two if one blows out you still can finish the day.. :D

Depends on the driver and water conditions. Twin drives dont bother me as much as a single just because the opposing rotation pushes againest the tie bar!!! Single drive even at low HP #s loads the drive in only one direction and a hold hell of a lot after flying.. I set all standards by what we learn from racing!!
Poker Runs have the first stops 10-30 miles running WOT. A good OSS race now days might have a 3-5 mile straight. Even the Bud Boat will only average 110-120 around a coarse..I have been in my fair share of flips and wreaks and I try not to put price over safety..Good discussion but a single bravo will kill you just fast with 500 hp than my 40 skater with 2600hp.Due the math 2600 hp running 4 rams / 650 per ram divided by 2 because the props turn in..All so if you run two if one blows out you still can finish the day.. :D[/QUOTE]

Agreed, you can't put a price on safety.

OK, I have a single ram and hydraulic helm. Can I add another ram or do I have to start all over?

U can add an other ram !!!:ernaehrung004:

imcomarine.com

is where i got the price from !!!:eek:

I believe Daredevil is correct...
You can get an IMCO twin ram system for just under 2500.00
It is in my IMCO catalog.

Chris

:rolleyes::ernaehrung004::evilb::cool-smiley-027:

Sorry Charlie. That is not full hydraulic. That is just the transom setup. You still need to buy the filter, hoses, helm, wheel and the rest. That comes to well over $3,500.

At 70 mph a single ram should be plenty unless you intend to drive abusively. The factory set up on a 2004 496HO Rage (70 mph + and more on the new wood free hulls) is the stock Mercruiser internal steering. I have an IMCO single ram on a Nordic Rage running mid 80's operated for three seasons and nothing but good performance though most operation is not at WOT. LOL.

Dual Ram w/wing plate....the two rams effectively create a set of gussets, the cylinders/gussets serve to share loading on the gimbal pin,stabilize tolerances in the drive/gimbal and reduce transom flex....The wing plate replaces the bearing cap as the connection point,the cap has been known to break.

U maybe right,,,but it say's steering kit ,,,so i thought it comes with everything? SORRY .

And i can only agree with CcanDo !!!!:ernaehrung004:

Yeah, that catalog is kind of misleading. It says twin ram kit but does not get specific.

I have one of their twin ram "kits" It is complete with all the goodies from helm to end cap. You just have to make sure taht they speck everything out. It is a nice product and I would not run my ZX at big speeds without one. I felt it was a good value but it was not $2,500

Good discussion gents...thanks.

Since my application is just low to mid 70 mph and I drive pretty conservative (600 hp and nursing a standard B1 drive), a full hydraulic single ram will probably be fine and waaaaaayyyy better that the sloppy stock setup.

What will end up bugging me the most is the non-symmetry look of a single ram on my transom. In the end, I will probably be ordering the dual ram. Damn!

:Score-101010:

If you have 1 ram fail..... both rams fail.

So is there no benefit to two rams on a single engine application, or are they less likely to fail when there are two?

Yes, there is a benefit to two rams from both a safety and wear standpoint. As one that owns both systems I would agree.

That does not necessarily make your boat a death trap if it has only one ram. Many boats come from the factory with single ram and it is much better than internal. If there was a huge liability issue, you would not even be able to buy a single ram system in today's litigous society.

One ram = better
two rams = best

And no in the great scheme of things $1,000 should not be a big deal when considering safety.

Yes, I probably will put another ram on my little 70 mph boat later but for now its way better than the internal system. I will probably do it for looks because I doubt I could even wear out the internal system in the next 15 years on these Tn lakes.

I have blown internal o-rings on one, removed the hoses and installed inverted male an plugs. It got me home and finished my trip. It took about 15 minutes and I was riding. I carry spare fittings,plugs and caps you just never know!! Oh yea oil absorbent rags..Keeps the coast gaurd off your a**.

Yep, always quick fixes to get by, as long as they don't break when you is haulin azz downz ze lake. :)