Innovate air/fuel ratio meter
 

Has anyone used the Innovate handheld air/fuel ratio meter (LM1 or the new LM2)? I was planning to put a gauge in the dash, but thought the handheld would be a good start, and could always upgrade to an in-dash gauge later.
Thanks.

I've been using them for about 5 years. Great product. Just use it for tuning though. The 02 sensor will not last in a marine environment.

So the handheld would be all I need - not worth putting a permanent gauge in. I looked back at some previous threads and it seems the Innovate system is well liked.

Very good system. Great customer service.

Not for permanent marine use as stated.

Agree with everything above. If you have not bought it yet, then you may want to look at the unit from FAST. I have a couple of Innovates, but I rarely use them since I bought the FAST. They make one that is a dual channel. It can read 2 sensors at once. You need to monitor both banks of the engine to see which is the leanest. You need to tune using the lean bank. The FAST unit makes it possible to monitor both and determine which is the leaner bank all through the rpm range. They run a little over $400, just a touch more than the Innovate. Hope this helps, Eddie.

The O2 sensor will last if you have long risers and you locate them in the elbo. The key is keep it dry. I used to have the O2 sensor in stock exhaust just a few inched away from the head. I went through a few on them with this method. After puchacing the new exhaust I am still using that original set. I have a Holley MPI kit and I monitor the O2 with my laptop. I think a gage that you could monitor would be a good idea. It is on my to do list also. Some of the guys say the sensor will not last. My boat is stored in a dry building this may be why mine has lasted so long.

I am running CMI Tube tops and the O2 bung is in the collector. It is dry out to the transom with Borla muffers after that. I ran it once without the mufflers and after a 2mile idle zone, it must have gotten wet and it died. But with the muffers on.. I run it all the time. One output goes to my ECU and the other goes to an Analog gauge which you can calibrate the output to drive the gauge. I use the ECU to log the results and monitor operation. A second O2 is a great idea and I may just step up and do that. My ECU can handle two inputs also..
I guess we all have a to do list..

Dick

I run the Innovate O2 system. I run full dry CMI's with GGB Extreme mufflers, ( which are basically open pipes ), water can get in if it wants to. I have no flappers at all. My sensor has lasted for 2 years so far.

I'm running CMI Sport Tubes with Corsa diverters (Quick and Quiet), so I'm pretty limited on where I can mount the 02 sensor. I put the bung in the the tailpipe as far back from where the water enters the exhaust as I could, but I doubt the sensor will last long if I leave it in (another reason I'm going with a handheld a/f meter for now).

I picked up a LM2 from our local auto parts dealer ("Lordco" - they're an authorized Innovate distributer up here). Now just waiting for the weather to warm up some so I can try it out.

Finally took the boat out with the 02 meter hooked up. Made a ten minute run for idle to wot - thought I recorded it but couldn't replay it when I got back to the dock - will have to reread the manual!
With the engine warm the a/f at idle was around 12 - 12.5. Through most rpm's the a/f ratio hovered in the 11.5 to 12.5 range. At wot it was around 12.
This all seems a little rich to me. I will do another run tomorrow (after I figure out how to record it properly).
Is there an easy way to record RPM's with the Innovate LM-2? I was going to just write them down at 250 rpm increments. It's too bad there wasn't some way to integrate the Innovate readings with the Diacom software. I recorded the run on my Diacom - everything looked good, water temps, pressures, etc. except I had a few sensor "spikes" - don't know if that's normal - didn't trigger any fault codes.

I think your #'s look pretty good and safe. I don't believe you want to be any higher then 12.2 on a NA engine from what I have read.

I also like my LM1. isn't the LM2 dual recording for both banks?

I think the a/f ratio at wot looks okay, but seems rich at idle and low rpm's. I'm going out again tomorrow and will record #'s at specific rpms.

The LM2 is single or dual. I went single (odd cylinder bank) because it would be a tough squeeze getting an 02 bung in a dry spot on the exhaust on the even side - I have exhaust diverters. There's more room on the odd side but it's still really close to where the water enters the exhaust. My CMI Sport tube headers don't have much tailpipe before the diverter valve.

Had a great day on the lake yesterday. I still can't figure out how to recall the air/fuel ratio data logs, it keeps coming up "invalid data file". I will have to phone Innovate on Monday-I'm sure it's something simple that I'm missing.
I got the wife to write down the a/f ratio's at 500 rpm increments, made four runs. Seems rich at idle/low rpm, not sure about the rest, what do you guys think?
5000 rpm is the most I could get with a labbed 28p bravo.

My thought is your AFR is safe/typical but rich. The pro-engine builder has little motivation to put the AFR ratio any leaner especially not knowing each use/load and the fuel being used.
If you leaned out your set-up a full 10%, how many fuel $ will you save in a season?,,,$150-300? Is it worth it?
Having said this, I haven't stopped working on my to get it right on the money :drink:
Do you have set a target AFR at each RPM? How many test runs is your wife good for? :angry-smiley-038:

I don't have a set target for the AFR, but I have a lot of transom soot that I would like to reduce if possible.
The wife will do more AFR test runs as long as the beer cooler is full and she gets some time behind the wheel!:ernaehrung004:

BenPerfected--

Getting the AFR right is also about making horsepower. When it is too rich, you are wasting fuel and available horsepower.

IMO for N/A motors, you are a little on the rich side and you confirm that with the black transom.

Smitty,
I agree and believe that an engine in tune will make more power. Rich leaves the plugs half fouled and cuts the life span of the oil and may increase wear. On our mid-July trip, I am targeting 13.4-13.6 from 3000-5300 RPM and from 12.6-12.8 at 5300+ (PV's open).

I just tuned my engine last month, I have a NA 489 stroker, Holley MPI with wideband O2. I set the target at 13.5 from idle to 3500 RPM, I ran the mid range at 13 and 12.5 at higher RPM's. No soot on the transum and runs perfect.

Hi ! Is there a part number for the FAST kit or components needed ? I would like to get setup to use the 1/4" NPT threads on stock Mercruiser exhausts, as well as the CMI headers. I would love to use this on a 383 I just installed in a buddy's boat to get it jetted perfectly. Thanks, BBB

The black transom shows up at all rpm's and at idle the exhaust definately smells a little rich. I was also thinking 13.5 at idle/low rpm's and 13 mid range and 12.5ish for high rpm. The spark plugs always look clean, but that could be from the high energy ignition on the 496's.

I will talk to Dustin at Whipple - I'm running Whipple's Stage 2 ECU, so hopefully he can retune it leaner.

raeburn,
Is your motor NA or blown?? I dont see a reference to it. I have a data log from my 565" NA motor if you are interested.. I could email it to you..
Dick

It's a NA 496HO, with Raylar 103 heads, intake, cam. Also running Whipple's Stage 2 ECM with CMI Sport tube headers. If you don't mind sending me your data log I would appreciate it. I will PM you my email address.
Thanks!

The Whipple Stage 2 ECU conversion is marketed on the web site for upgrading a stock 496 with 43 psi fuel pressure. I assume that Dustin was aware that your engine was not a stock 496 but a Raylar BCK103 upgraded motor that runs at 50 psi fule pressure?

No, I don't think Dustin knew it was going to be running 50lbs fuel pressure instead of 43. I will definatley bring it up with him. Thanks for the input:ernaehrung004:

If you look at the Raylar web site the posted AFR numbers from the dyno tests are a lot leaner. My personal targets 13.5-12.5 idle/13.0-12.5 cruise/12.8-12.3 WOT. Keep in mind that each cylinder has a different AFR/rpm and AFR from a bank of 4 cylinders is an average so unless you record all eight individual cylinder AFR's you hedge toward the lower side. An example of a work in progress is attached.

Dustin at Whipple has been a great help. After sending him my numbers, he suggested that I lower my fuel pressure by 5lbs (50 down to 45). I'm a little cautious with this engine so I went down 3lbs - it brought my AF up from 12 to 12.3 avg. 12.5 is my target with the aluminum heads so I'm going to go another 2lbs lower and see what happens.
I'm still very rich at idle and low rpms (12.0), so I will send the PCM to Dustin at the end of summer to clean that up. I have picked up about 100 rpms already, so there is definately a few HP being left behind by being too rich. So far best mph is 73.5. I sent my labbed 28p bravo to Bblades to get tweaked a bit more - I would really like to see 75 on gps this year!
I picked up Hardin Marine's new 496 flame arrestor - l don't know if it flows better than the K&N, but it sure looks great!
Will update after running with lower fuel psi.

Update? what was your final a/f ratio?

I dropped the fuel pressure to 46lbs and it raised my air/fuel ratio a little more. I am seeing wot a/f of around 12.5 and mid-range (3000-4000) a/f of about 13.5. This seems about right. The idle/low rpm a/f is still too fat (12.5) so I will send the PCM out in the fall to get that leaned up a bit. The transom soot is still just as bad though. I spoke to Ray @ Raylar and he is insists I should only be running 87-89 octane (I'm too chicken to go below 91 because I heard the Whipple Stage 2 calibrations shuts off the knock sensor/timing retard program in the PCM). He said they found 12.8 to be the best a/f ratio, so I might drop another pound or two and see what happens.
BBlades got my prop back to me in time for the run - as promised (Thank you Brett!) I picked up another 150 rpms and almost made 75 (74.5 with 3/4 tank & 2 people). Boat ran great!!

I thought Ray told me WOT A/F ratio was supposed to be around 13.5?

Isnt 12.5 still kind of rich for WOT?

FYI - test your stock flame arrestor - mine performed 1 MPH better than K&N and the Hardin.

I was told 12.8 at wot and around 13.5 mid-range cruise, Dustin at Whipple told me 12.5, I think he's being cautious.
My main concern now is cleaning up the idle/low rpm's. That is where most of my transom soot comes from. I notice a huge difference when I run the exhaust through the leg at low rpm's compared with running it straight out.

My stock flame arrestor is long gone. The Hardin Marine arrestor seems pretty good, I took out probably three-quarters of the stainless mesh (left two layers in) - I also took a grinder to the inside of the little velocity stack on the arrestor and smoothed out all the edges.

The third of the three dyno tests posted on the Raylar web site for the Raylar 525hp engine kit (test #61900114) shows the AFR as 13.42 at peak hp and 4900 rpm. At 5200 rpm AFR is 14.00.

http://www.raylarengine.com/dyno.html

Not sure if that is normal AFR for the kit but it sounds awfully lean for real world running.

He is probably being cautious because he knows that the AFR from a bank of four cylinders at the exhaust collector is the average of the four and since all cylinders are not the same identical AFR some will be leaner than the average and some richer. Its the leanest cylinder that you have to be paying attention to.

I would very surprised if that was the case given Dustin's conservative nature in these matters.

Did you ask Dustin Whipple if that is the case with his Stage 2?

There you go - I used the same trick on the stock arrestor.

Innovate LM2, Logging of GPS Speed
 

Anyone have success logging GPS Speed into an Innovate LM2 Analog input. It appears the GPS device output digital signal would need to be converted through a "Digital to Anolog Convertor" to a 0-5V non-pulsed linear output. MPH to Voltage calibration numbers would also be necessary.