Am I getting hosed?
 

I have a little dilemma/dispute going on with my mechanic, which is also located at the marina where I keep my boat.

I have a 1998 Formula 353 fastech with stelling ext boxes, along with 500hp carb, and fresh bravo 1 XR's. The boat has a total of 240 hours on it. In April, I paid $1500 to my mechanic/marina to do a complete service on the drives and extension boxes, and they stated on the bill that all points where greased, including both sets of U-joints. In late July I was driving the boat, and I had just run the boat hard for about 2 minutes, and when I stopped, I smelled a burning smell. As soon as I was getting the boat on plane again, there was a hard jolt, loud noise, and apparently the drive shaft in the extension box appeared to have snapped.

The next week, my mechanic then pulled the boat out and said that the u-joints in the extension box and extension box drive shaft were broken, to go along with a few small parts in the bell housing were also broken. So my mechanic had pulled the engine and replaced parts, which I believe the parts totaled around $1,000. Unfortunately, I just got the total bill, and it was a little over $5k with labor. The issue that I have here, is that my insurance adjuster looked at the parts, and they issued a report that stated that this malfunction was a result of poor lubrication. However, I don't feel responsible, considering that I paid $1,500 in April to have this area lubricated? I had probably only used the boat 30 hours since the service. Please let me know your thoughts here. Do you think I have grounds for an argument here? I don't have a problem paying for the new parts, but I just think that my mechanic should work me some kind of deal on labor.

Thanks for any insight that you all might have!

thats a bit of a tough call. But i would have to say the insurance guy is going by some sheet that says reasons for this problem occuring. What was the real reason for the failure? did your mechanic give you a reason for the shaft breaking?

mrfixxall
 

my opinion!!! all boat owners should have some kind of mechanical experience,period....Buy a book on your engine set up,drive set up and extension box set up,do some reading on where all the Greece points are and if you pay someone for the services rendered and you don't see that the services were done then you have ground to stand on..theirs allot of marinas the take care of allot of boats and if the marina you deal with only has one mechanic then something may have been over looked or missed and you got charged for it..

most of the time theirs a mechanic on duty and a service guy that hands you the bill,their was probably miscommunication between the two and you got charged for something that wasn't done,in your case it was the u joints,now me being a tech and if my boat was under warranty and it had to go to a merc dealer for some service work i always check if the work was done..if he greased the ujoints like he said he did their would be some kind of evidence at the drives,always check if they were removed,smug of Greece,finger prints,clean Greece zurts,greasy Greece zurts,new Greece at the pivot pins between the drive housing and the gimbal ring.theirs always a sign if the work was completed..

legg to stand on?that would be hard call,drill the guy and refuse to pay for the repairs..if the ujoints show a sign of rust then their would be a leg to stand on,also some ujoints dont come with greece zurts ,look at your old ujoints and see if they have them,if not then ask how did you greece them if theirs no greece zurts?

just my o2

i would want to inspect the parts myself as well as have another marine mechanic inspect them also. sure sounds like he skipped a few zert fittings.... on the flip side some parts just fail though. i might even take the time to carefully bag up the parts and send them back to merc and see what they say. is there any kind of a known problem with the parts? year, make, serial number. just some thoughts. that really sucks especially during these difficult times. i feel for you.
good luck.
john

I'm surprised you are talking about an insurance ajuster???

did not see the job but 1000$ in parts could be ok but 4k in labor, that's alot of hours only to pull 1 engine and fix a shaft... that's 40 hours at 100$ !!!

anyway, still don't see why you have an insurance agent in there, I thought a mecanical problem was not covered by insurance... of course on his side he's gonna try to say it is someone's fault so he does not pay...

and yes I believe even if maintenance was done it might sometimes break for no reason, but maybe he did not grease these parts... very hard to tell...

good luck and let us know how it goes!

I really don't see where you have any recourse. However, I agree with Jeff in that 4K for labor to R and R one engine is crazy. I get 5 hours each way at 65/hr. That is only $650. Throw in an hour to R and R the drive and a few to fix the problem and I would get about 1K in labor. And I would still have people bit@h at that price.:drink: I think you may want to look elsewhere for a mechanic.
Eddie

I agree with all of whats been stated. A mechanical failure is not covered by insurance.

I believe Stellings says that 25hr service is recommended on greasing the boxes. Thats about when I do mine.

First, $1500 for the first service alone is nuts. Thats a $500-700 job max. 4-6 hrs labor plus lube.

The parts in the Stellings box are not cheap. You could actually have a lot more in parts.

I have already had several spirited talks with the manager of the marina regarding this bill, and I am currently waiting to hear back from him, in regards to any kind of reduction in the bill, but that doesn't sound very promising. It is hard to say as to whether the U-Joints where greased when I paid for them to do so in April, and the only grounds that I have that says that they weren't properly greased, is a report put together by by insurance company. Whenever the work was originally completed, I did not check their work, as I am not a mechanic and I feel that if I am going to pay a premium for the work to be done, that it should not be my job to go back and check to make sure that it was all completed. My family has been using this mechanic for many years, and between just my dad and I, we have spent over $25k in service in the past 2 years, (mainly because dad went through 2 transmissions in his sundancer). I have stated to the manager of the marina that I am willing to pay and settle, but I just don't feel that the labor cost is at all fair, especially considering that I have a report by an insurance company that states that the reason for this malfunction was because of a lack of lubrication, a job that I paid a premium ($1,500) for them to do back in April. I have been using these guys for a long time, I keep my boat at their marina, and I hope to continue using them, but I have made my point very well clear to this marina, that the bill was not fair. They billed me for 33 hours of labor, and that just seems way out of line, not to mention they charged me $210 to put the boat on the trailer and pull it out of the water. It is my hope that we can come up with some kind of settlement, as I am very sure that this marina does not want the bad publicity.

the u joints on the engine side are very hard to get at for greasing if the engine is mounted as standard on bravo drives.i had the same setup on one of my boats.i know for a fact that if you don,t grease them every 25 hrs,the joint WILL FAIL.i am telling you this from experiance.i broke one,when i took it apart the joint was blue from heat.check the broken parts for blueing,if they are blue,they might not have been greased.

If they lasted 240 hours its becaused they were being lubed. Stelling drive lines just dont last. There are lots of threads on here about that.

ok, hear's another possibility, My Gibson, no comparison I understand has a short drive shaft with 2 u-joints in each one, which I grease every spring, no problem, been doing it for years...july 4 weekend we were on a trip, boat started vibrating..for about 15 sec than bam !!....well a u-joint failed, took out the ends, both couplers etc..looking at the the ujoint, you couls see that it burned up from no grease, yet the other half was lubed fine...so now the question is did something get the center and clog the joint ?? or was the hole not drill from day one and just happened to live that long on the original grease ??? mine was so destroyed that there was no way to tell, from now on I will make sure I see grease from all 4 ends !!!

This is all good information. My main dispute that I am currently facing is in regards to the amount of labor that I was charged, which is extremely hard to dispute, because I wasn't present when the work was done. However, most educated people that I have discussed this with, all seem to agree that 33 hours of labor is way too high. I understand that the argument in regards to if it was greased or not will never be resolved, considering that it will be too tough to tell or prove either way. I realize that I am going to have to cough up money here, as it is not worth going to court over, but the question lies in regards to if my mechanic is going to show any kind of mercy, which you would think that it would be in their best interest to do so, considering our long relationship and the dollars that we spend with them. I guess we will just have to see....

Thank you everyone for your input, and it is my hope that we are able to reach a resolution here without things getting nasty.

mrfixxall
 

OK all B.S. aside.on stock engines it usually takes me 15 minutes to pull the drive, 3hours to pull one engine, 1/2 hour to pull the gimbal housing..now for the stelling box's i cant see no more then 3 hours to repair the ujoints and bearings.

reassembly always takes longer..reinstall box to drive to the transom,would take approximately 1 1/2 hours,reinstall engine with checking alignment approximately 5 hours,reinstall drive and checking drive fluid 1/2 hour..add 1/2 hour for hydraulic steering..

Here's my question? Ask them how long till the other side breaks? Ask them if they took the inspection cover off and look..or better yet see if the bolts have ever been removed..

I have had many, many bad dealings with marinas and mechanics over the past 25 yrs. so I started learning on my own and doing most things myself. This is my advice for you. You have stated the total number of hours for the bill to be 33 hrs. Ok Now have the Marina manager and or Mechanic give you a complete breakdown of how the 33 hours were tallied up and at this point I mean detailed. How many hours for each part of this job. You will be able to challenge them alot easier if they tell you it took 6 hrs. to take the hatch off. I would be there when they total the hours. Have them do it in front of you don't give them time to make up or add things you may not be totally familiar with. Post the detail and then let the OSO panel of experts have at it. You can also have a friend call the marina and inquire about pricing for different services. Give you a little more info to compare your bill.

Good Luck.

Your getting more than hosed. coctails and mrfixall I think said it best. Break it down you will have more of a chance. Find a HONEST mechanic. The experts can on oso can help. I'd fight 4 every dime unless you have more time than money. If you have given up your money I'd more than likely say that youve lost it. if you have not you may still have a fair chance. Find a friend 2 help you . Now make us all proud of you and leave bite marks all over his ass. Keep us posted.

labor rates
 

i think every boater sometime on another has been in the same boat your in now.been there ,done it.i would learn how to work on you stuff,or find a guy on the side to help you along.its a pain in the azz to work on any boat let alone a performance,but least when you do it yourself ,and when you fix it great,when you dont you have no one to blame but yourself.i think the labor rate is high.the job is not that labor intensive,10hrs max,and thats when chit did,nt go right.just my 2cents

UPDATE 353 Drive line can be replaced without removing engine. check with Stelling for more info.

Yes it can. I was wondering why the engine was pulled in the first place. Something could have broke inside the engine bell housing where the drive line connects.

Bottom line is that a detailed, line by line, invoice is needed to see the costs of all parts and labor charges.

A lot of places will charge the standard "book" labor hours for certain things, even if it only takes half the time. Good mechanics can make money this way. It may book at 4 hrs to remove an engine and a good mechanic can do it in 2hrs. Or if the mechanic is slow, he will charge his actual time. He can putz around all he wants and bill you $100 and hour.

+ 2

I replaced a driveshaft on a friends boat,
(that was about the same age as the boat in question
here, ) and did it all through the opening in the box.

It wasn't fun, but it can be done.

The new shaft that was sent was a heavier
duty piece.....apparently there were some issues
with that vintage of shaft.

Where would you recommend that I purchase a book like this? I am very open to learning as much as I can, and hope to be able to start doing more of my service. I am also planning on replacing the shaft on the other extension box next spring, and I am needing to know where stelling products can be purchased? I have looked for a website, but have not come up with anything.

I agree completely...
jr.

Fixx
 

here's stelling's website...it sucks tho.ask them for a maintenance Manuel http://www.stellingsmarineproducts.c...roducts_id=155

search ebay for a manuel,you may have got a maintenance Manuel on your hp 500's and bravo one stern drives.

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=mer...+manuel&_rdc=1

Unless they had to do some repairs that are out of the norm then I can not see how they could EVER come up with numbers like that. Makes me appreciate my mechanic all the more. I try and do things myself but when I feel that I am over my head I trust him.

We had a similiar issue with one of my customers that had a 39 Cig with 800's and #6 drives. The marina that he kept the boat at insisted on doing all the work. They had no clue what they were doing. They could not even fix a high idle issue and finally relented to let me take a look and all it was was a loose throttle cable! There are very few good mechanics who will not rip you off so when you find one buy them lots of beer!! :D If I was you I would be taking my boat to some one else.

You can get all the manuals from Mercury and Formula