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Originally Posted by cabin fever
(Post 3098505)
Oil looked ok when I was looking at it.
Started on the hose at the sellers house in 15 degree weather, ran for aprox 10 min. Motor never got warm. Brought the boat home. Cleaned, polished, added some bling, etc. NEVER started the boat cuase it was still to cold out. Finally drained the oil, and refilled (since I didn't know how old the oil was) When I drained it, I noticed a little water, but chalkded it up to condesation at the time, nothing like what I have now. Used the boat for 30 min, and thought the oil PSI was to high, so I got scared, and put it back on the trailer. Called the seller. told him I put straight 50 VRI in. He said to run 20/50VRI. Drained again, and noticed a small amount of water, again thought it was condensation (still nothing like I have now). Ran it aprox 2 hrs. Boat ran great. Perfect day on the water. Got home check oil, and noticed right away from the dipstick I had problems. I'm not petty. I expect little things to break, and fix. I even stated if it was just intake gaskets, or even head gaskets I didn't expect any help, but I'm starting to fear its internal :( right now the biggest frustration is not knowing whats going on. dont use a thick oil when flushing,use a 30w oil,will drain more then a thicker oil,,are you sucking the oil out? |
Yea, drained the block, and headers before I left. Weather warmed up to above freezing during the trip home
We didn't drain the oil cooler, so it was one the first things i checked (it was still good) I've been using straight 30 to flush. |
Cabin fever did you actually un hook the rear of the headers from the rubber hose? The newer style headers were bolted underneath! The older ones were one piece and didn't bolt to the tail pipes, which is what you are describing. The older ones could be rotted out inside, meaning the inside pipe routing the exhaust gasses could be leaking. If that happens you could be sucking water in. Also when you shut down the motor, water can leak into the inside pipes and run down into the exhast port into the combustion chamber!
After running and you let it sit a few minutes, is the motor hard to turn over? If so water is filling the cylinder with water, pushing it past the piston rings and into the oil! Just trying to help you figure this **** out. I know headers can create havick. |
I appreciate your help!!!!
I have the headers off, and on my work bench. I took some pictures to describe what i was talkking about, but I can't post pics here. The motor never has a hard time starting. usually turns right over, and fires right up. |
Try and get those headers pressure tested. That would be the easiest fix. If the water isn't drained after use and sets in them for some time they will rott. I hope thats all it is, maybe you will get lucky and it's the headers leaking. Not that headers are cheap though. Let us know, we want you on the water.
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Lightnings are not easy to pressure test unless you have a jig. I would just send them back to Jan and see what he says but from everything you describe, the headers are your problem. This is not good news. New SS headers run about $4k or so depending on what you buy.
Are your headers stainless or standard and how old are they? |
Standard. Powercoated Red (which I could care less about)
wouldn't I be able to see some evidence of leakage? I would think I would see some rust or something? |
not always. What happens with cracked headers is the crack may not open up untill the motor is at operating temp. Depending on the cam, when your running over 2500 you blow any leaking water out the pipes but when you slow down the water reverts. The leak may get bigger as you slow down because the water pressure will drop as the engine speed comes down but the exhaust gasses temps are still very high. Once it's inside the combustion chamber it won't compress and gets pushed passed the rings. By the time you get shut down most of the residual water that leaked in dries up from engine heat.
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You probably wont see anything, because the crack/rott could be anywhere up inside those tubes. Reversion is a *****.
I wish someone could lone you a set of headers to just try out. Also you may be able to find a decent used set for cheap. Those lightning headers you have are old! They are not stainless and will corroid. Is there a pyro sensor installed on them? Sometimes guys will try and weld one on and cause a leak. |
You may notice some white hard water stains in the pipes. this is caused from minerals out of the water calcining on the pipes from the high temps.
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If they are standard Lightning headers (not stainless steel) then they are only good for a few years (3ish) of fresh water use IF they have been drained or pickled after every use. If you run them in salt ever then you can just throw them away, salt water gets very pissed off with ferrous metals when it's heated over 190 deg. Exhaust temps get over 2500 deg. They're nicely constructed headers but I would never buy standard since they just can't last. Lightnings stainless headers will run for 7-10 if not more with good care and you can run them in salt water with no worries.
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Fixx
If you had rotted or cracked tubes i would think you would have bigger problems then you have now..the inner tube's on the lightening headers are stainless steel and the outer is carbon steel,jan also coats the water passage's so they wont rot out so fast...i see every body's point but i have a customer that i put a set on 12 yrs ago,,no issues what so ever and they still look like new...if they were in salt water now that's another story..you can try and pressure check them your self by going to a hardware store and get an air pressure 3'' sewer pipe plug,,stick it in the header collector and fill the chamber with a hand air pump until the water passages exiting the header are blocked off...stick your garden hose in the other end that feeds the header water and slightly open the spicket and fill the header with water..look for leaks..
just my 02 |
UPDATE
After pulling my hair out for weeks, trying to figure it out, I broke down, and called the guy around here everyone uses. He bascially told me I wasn't getting the motor hot enough, and thats why I kept seeing water. so after some serious replumbing of the house, I rigged up hot water to my spicket. After 25 minutes, with the motor running on the hose at hot temps (200 degree oil, and 170 water) the oil looked great. I have used the boat 2 weekends now, and still looks to have good oil This past weekend I really pushed it too, and it no problems. For the record, I don't believe this was a problem I inherited, just dumb luck. I believe the loose intake bolts were the problem all along, and I just never got the water out of the motor. Boat is running good, and She is completly clean again (hate havin a dirty boat) Hope eveyone has a good holiday weekend. |
Good news. Enjoy the summer
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Originally Posted by cabin fever
(Post 3120315)
UPDATE
After pulling my hair out for weeks, trying to figure it out, I broke down, and called the guy around here everyone uses. He bascially told me I wasn't getting the motor hot enough, and thats why I kept seeing water. so after some serious replumbing of the house, I rigged up hot water to my spicket. After 25 minutes, with the motor running on the hose at hot temps (200 degree oil, and 170 water) the oil looked great. I have used the boat 2 weekends now, and still looks to have good oil This past weekend I really pushed it too, and it no problems. For the record, I don't believe this was a problem I inherited, just dumb luck. I believe the loose intake bolts were the problem all along, and I just never got the water out of the motor. Boat is running good, and She is completly clean again (hate havin a dirty boat) Hope eveyone has a good holiday weekend. That is great news! |
Good to hear you found relief!! One good thing out of all of this, is all the info everyone shared.
After running my motor on the test stand for about 20hrs I had water in my oil and wanted to make sure it wasnt from a problem. So far the motor held 15psi for 24hrs and I did find water in one pipe.. I have to pressure test it before I move on. So it was a good read. Sorry you had to go through the grief. But alot of us here have done the same for one reason or another.. I think it might be a part of boating. As a Marine once told me. "If it doesnt kill you, it will make you stronger." Now Enjoy it!! |
Great news. I had similiar issue when i bought my cafe. its a nice relief knowing you dont have to tear things apart.
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