water in oil
 

Used the new to me boat for a total of 2 1/2 hrs.

Changed oil before i used it for the first time, and noticed a little moisture. Chalked it up to condensation, since it was cold when I heard it run. bought the boat, and brought it home.

Ran on the water for 45 min. Thought the oil psi was to high, so I changed oil again and noticed about the same amount of moisture.

Sunday was out for a few hours, probably ran the boat a total of 90 mins. Got home, and it was obvious something was wrong.

Got to checking, and noticed all the intake bolts were loose. Bit the bullet, and pulled the intake, and replaced gaskets.

Ran 2 more oil cycles through it, and both look just as bad.

Not sure where to go next. Leakdown test? Can you pressure test the oil Cooler?

Fixx
 

is it registering higher on the dip stick?

yes you can pressure test the cooler,,,need to remove it from the boat,plug one hole and install a 3/8 x 1/2 barb fitting in the other end and attach a air hose to it. then regulate the air pressure down to 50 psi and stick it in a bucket of water and look for air bubbles..

also did you pull the valve covers to see if the top of them are slimed,,couls be mixing with the oil after it gets hot..

Sunday it registered about 1qt higher on the dipstick after running about 90 mins or so.

tonight while on the hose, it didn't seem to change at all.

I have not pulled a valve cover yet. Center of the motor was caked with milky oil. I pulled all the spark plugs, and they all look about the same to me. Motor runs like a top.

Fixx
 

warm the motor,after the engine is warm remove the hoses going to the thermostat housing and connect a hose looping one into the other,remove the hose at the transom that feeds the sea pump or the one at the sea pump a and shove a garden hose in the end of it..clamp it tight and turn the hose on and listen for water entering the engine through the valve cover oil fill also watch the dipstick's oil level..if you hear water trickling into the engine or you see the oil level going up you have internal problems..

Thanks. that is a good idea. will add that to the list of things to do.

Isn't normal city water pressure about 80psi :eek::eek: If you do this make sure you don't turn the garden hose on full flow. Just enough to get flow out the exhaust.

First thing I would be checking is the exhaust risers, then intake, then head gasket. A quart is quit abit.

If you have a crack in a block, it would fill the crankcase up in a matter of minutes.

no exhaust manifolds. Lightning headers.

Leak down test will be coming soon.

Fixx
 

Mine is 45 psi but at the end of a 100 ft 3/4 '' hose its about 20-25.. it you have a internal leak,this way you will be sure to find it quick :)

yes just crack the spicket a little..

Are they dry or do you have water running to them?

Water reduced. Half the water goes overboard with the exhaust, half is hooked to to hose, that dumps through the transom.

Have changed oil 3 times. first time looked the same to me. 3rd, might have been just a hair better, but hard to tell.

should I call it quits on the oil changes. Read somewhere that I should put some diesel in to wash the motor out? I have not done that.

After 3 oil changes, should I be able to see a noticable difference?

I plan to pressure test the oil Cooler this weekend, just to rule it out. What would be my next step? I will try to pressure test the water system, but I have a feeling I have a leak somwhere in the head gasket, block, or heads.

This F'n blows! Feeling like I got hosed on this deal. such is life I guess.

You can run kerosene through the engine to flush the engine oil passages. I wouldn't rev it very high, and I wouldn't run it for more than 15 minutes or so.

After 3 oil changes, there should be a noticeable difference unless you're still getting water mixed in or it was REALLY bad to begin with. I'd go ahead and try running the kero through, won't hurt anything.

There should definately be a noticeable difference after 3 oil changes.
The only way there would not be a big difference is if water was still getting mixed into the oil.

Kinda what I thought.

Bummer.

Gonna need to start stripping stuff down and figuring out where the waters coming from. With luck it's the oil cooler and you don't have any problems with the block.

Ok, this is gonna sound stupid, but here goes.

Drained the oil from the 3rd oil change last night. Came home from work today, and the oil looked alot better then the previous 2 times. Stuck my hand in it, and swished it around, and back to the milkshake. I know its probably water settling at the bottom of the bucket, but the first 2 times the oil looked like crap even after sitting in the buket for 24hrs.

Am I grasping at straws here, or is there a chance my intake was leaking, and I am slowly getting somwehere with oil changes.

I have the oil cooler off, and will rig up a way to test it with air anyways. Just wondering if I should put it all together, and try to run some more oil through it, or if I am just wasting my time, and money.

Fixx
 

If its registering higher on the dipstick like stated then you probably have internal problems.

I am probably just wasting $$$, but I am gonna run 1 more oil cycle through it just for peace of mind. After 4 runs, I should know for sure.

Oil cooler is off, and I will check that first, and put it back on. then compression / leakdown test.

got a couple more hours to work on the boat today.

Oil Cooler is good. After I checked it, I cleaned it up, and reinstalled.

Since I had a compression gauge I went, and ahead, and checked each cyl just for the hell of it. Not sure on the results, The motor is still kinda fresh.

#1 = 167
#3 = 165
#5 - 140 checked again at the end, and was 140 2nd time
#7 = 160

other side
#2 = 141 (checked again, and went up to 152)
# 4 = 175
#6 = 175
# 8 = 160

in the process of pressuring the coolant system, and had a couple questions.

1. can I plumb a gauge into the port on the intake next to the thermostat housing to monitor water pressure?

2. is there a way to adapt a coolant pressure tester for radiator caps to work on the inlet house for my motor?

Any suggestions?

I have heard of several people having similiar problems as you. If you have the Lightning headers with the tail pipes that go directly to the headers, you need to high temp silicone where the tail pipes meet up with the headers! I think there are two bolts where they hook on to the headers. If not siliconed you will get reversion into the exhaust valve and into the oil.

Hope this works for you and is a cheap fix.

I just pressure tested my 502 mag the ther day. I blocked off the water in and the water out hoses with copper sweat pluming cas, just pushed them into the hoses and clamed down. then removed my water temp sender, and put a 1/4 inch barb hose fitting on thermastate housing, then using my Snap-on car pressure tester, just take the rad cap adapter off and conect hose to barb fitting.

How long should I monitor it?

Pumped it up to 16psi. Hadn't moved after 40 min or so. Checked it right at an hour, and it had gone down a little bit. less then 1#

Any thoughts?

test #2.

(retightened all hose clamps) Pumped up to 18# this time. almost an hour, and gauge has not moved.

it sounds like the headers are leaking,pressure test then,if they are leaking,you get reversion,that will put water in the oil.:party-smiley-004:

One other thing that needs to be checked and that is
1. Are you using aluminum heads ? If so , how many hours are on the engine.
2. CMI Headers ? Look for leaks around the inside welds at the flange.
Do check ALL coolers if more than one.
And DSL is correct from what he has said.
Good Luck

It's the headers. Rseal those babies at the tail pipe connection. One word Reversion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Call Lightning Headers, they will tell you...

Merlin Alum heads. 25 hrs ??? on the motor

Lighting headers. Headers are one piece straight to a hose, to the tip.

Lightning made different style headers, some straight to the hose and later to the tail pipes! Even though some look like they go straight to a hose, they connect to the tail pipe underneath the hose. You will have to loosen and remove the hose, unbolt the tail pipe pull it away and re-silicone where they meet.
I know it seems crazy, but lots of guys have thought it was a bad head gasket, cracked head/block ect.

Thanks. I will check that out.

Sounds like exhaust problems for sure. Run the motor on the water and get it up to operating temp, with fresh oil of coarse. Bring it back to the dosck and pull one or both headers away from heads. If you have any water then you have reversion or a crack. Lightnings tend to crack up at the collector inside and it's very hard to see. If you overheat them from bagging a pump or running dry on the trailer you will distort the internal collector and that can cause it to crack. If you can, look up inside the header from the tail end. You should be able to see a round collector, if it's not perfectly round then it's been oveheated and is likely cracked.

Have you looked at you spark plugs for signs of moisture? That is a good telltale that there is an exhaust issue.

If you pull the headers off and send them to lightning Jan will test them for you.

This is F'n drivin me nuts!

Pulled the valve covers, just for a visual inspection. Everything looked good. Lots of milky crap on the tops of the valve covers. Pulled the headers. 1 looked fine. 1 showed small amount of moisture going into #4 cylinder. It doesn't appear to have been happening very much, as it seemed like a very small amount. Water looked fresh, and I saw no evidence of this happpening for while. How would I know for sure, this is causing a problem?

Before that I changed oil again, and ran it on the house, with some diesel to help flush it out. Oil does look darker, but could be the diesel.

Leakdown results are in the garage, so going from memory, the lowest I saw was 15% highest was 20% Checked each cylinder twice, but I don't know how much I trust the gauge (harbor freight) or the operator (1st time ) Motor was warm, Throttle wide open, each cylinder at TDC (maybe off a hair). Couldn't hear any obvious signs. each one sounded like it was going through the intake or center of the motor.

Why not try and reseal where the headers meet the tail pipes? It will only cost you a tube of silicone! Pull the hoses off and do it!! Reversion will drive you nuts........

Fixx
 

Who put the engine together? did the person use sealer on the head bolts or studs?? improper head gaskets,improper head torque..if their not torqued to proper spec the compression could be pushing the water past the head gasket into the lifter valley..

i had one a few years ago doing the same thing after a bore and rebuild, it turned out to be porosity in one of the cylinders..the motor would get to operating temps and their was a pin hole on the cylinder that sprayed water into the oil pan..replaced the block and the problem went away.

Not trying to sound dumb, but I'm not sure what your talking about. I have checked every inch of the headers. There are no bolts connecting tailpipes. It looks like mine are completly welded 1 piece. ends slip into a rubber hose, which is connected to tip through the transom.

Jim Valako put the motor together I believe. There was also a precision power sticker on it, so maybe they helped. I dunno.

I was told it was a turn key reliable motor, and I didn't get 2 hrs before I found a problem. I have an email telling me it was built way better then any HP500 motor. right now I could care less if it was 4.3L as long as I could go boating.

Loose intake bolts
Loose bolt from the pulleys to the crank (finger tight) WTF!
Havn't checked the head bolts yet, but will put a torque wrench on them before I put it back together. I am about ready to throw in the towel, and take it somewhere.

you say half the water is dumped? why not dump it all and run it for a few to see if it milkshakes or not? if it still does it then you have other problems if not then you know what the problem is. I dont know if 16psi is enough to show an internal leak or not?

Fixx
 

I would be calling the guy you got it from and inform him about all the trouble your having,if he is a man of his word he should stand behind his product..

He knows. I would imagine he has read, or is reading this thread. I have have asked for help already, and nothing.

We've traded a few emails, and he has given me info on the motor when I asked, although when I found the problem, I called,and left a voicemail never did get a call back.

I honestly don't know who to blame in this situation. The builder, the seller, or whoever. All I know is I was suppossed to be buying a realiable motor. I even stated I was scared of the motor before I bought the boat, and was reassured I would have no problems with it. The ad for it on here, even had another OSO member vouch for the condition of it. Like an idiot I took his word. The boat, and motor apeard to be in great shape. Started on the hose, and ran great. (still does) In fact everything the seller owned, looked to be in tip top shape. I honestly don't want to believe he knew there was a problem, cuase he seemed honest, but this is stupid, and I have inherited a problem.

I simply don't have the $$ to have the motor tore down, and rebuilt, and that is out of my abiltity. I've tried to do everything I can to fix it, but it appears its over my head, and I will be making payments on a boat I can't use.

I'm gonna go talk to the guy everyone around here uses for marine HP motors. See what he says I guess.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Fixx
 

did the oil look new in the boat when you bought it?

If you bought the boat and used it once than had a problem with water in the oil then the problem probably existed..

what state do you reside in?

Oil looked ok when I was looking at it.

Started on the hose at the sellers house in 15 degree weather, ran for aprox 10 min. Motor never got warm.

Brought the boat home. Cleaned, polished, added some bling, etc. NEVER started the boat cuase it was still to cold out. Finally drained the oil, and refilled (since I didn't know how old the oil was) When I drained it, I noticed a little water, but chalkded it up to condesation at the time, nothing like what I have now.

Used the boat for 30 min, and thought the oil PSI was to high, so I got scared, and put it back on the trailer. Called the seller. told him I put straight 50 VRI in. He said to run 20/50VRI. Drained again, and noticed a small amount of water, again thought it was condensation (still nothing like I have now). Ran it aprox 2 hrs. Boat ran great. Perfect day on the water. Got home check oil, and noticed right away from the dipstick I had problems.

I'm not petty. I expect little things to break, and fix. I even stated if it was just intake gaskets, or even head gaskets I didn't expect any help, but I'm starting to fear its internal :( right now the biggest frustration is not knowing whats going on.