I am stumped
 

Engines run great. boat handles awesome.

4 or 5 days ago when we drove it last, I thought there was a problem with the engines creating to much condensation. They were building up a lot of moisture under the valve covers, but nothing in the crankcase...

Added T stats, put it in the water today with new guages and sender, Now I am generating water.

1 engine was obvious wen it came out of the water. oil pan was a quart heavy and looked like a chocolate milshake. The other engine looked fine with condensation on the dipstick, but oil looked pretty clear. after it sat for a couple hours, I drained the pan and the second engine also had water in the pan.

Pulled coolers, pressure checked, no leaks.

Keep in mind that the engines run really strong. Headers were P checked before instalation.

Intakes were double checked, No water leakse there.

The T stats are letting the engines build up more water pressure than before and this is obviously triggering the problem to be worse, but where is the problem??

Engines have been sitting idle for 4 years. Never had water in them until they were recently dynoed. Never even had the valves opened until they were dynoed. No problems with water showed up during dyno runs.

The only thinkg I can think of at this point is to start tearing them down until I find a leak, but what can it be.

Head gaskets?? That problem should have showed up prior to now.....

What in the rigging can cause this to happen.

I have never had a water problem in an engine and I have built quite a few of them???

God thing I don;t have much hair to pull out, because this one is just killing me.

??????????????

Sorry to hear about yoru troubles. Although 1 may seem worse than the other, it is unusual to see it happen to both engines!! Since you say the oil coolers are good, I would start be pulling all the plugs and look for any signs of water. That may narrow down your search. If the plugs are either wet or washed clean, at least you will know the water is entering via the cylinders and not just pumping into the engine, say through an intake gasket. Next I would pull the headers and check for signs of water. If you dont find anything, I would start taking the engines apart. Good luck..

since both engines are doing it and I suspect both were built at the same time, wrong head gaskets?

That is what we are thinking on this end now??? Not realy enough time to tear them down and change everything out before KW, so I gues I'll worry about it in a couple weeks.:coolcowboy:

How much water pressure are you running?

Do you have oil temp thermostats?

If no oil t-stats, are you using very large coolers with cold lake water temp? I had a problem years ago running large coolers running in the spring on Lake Michigan and generated so much condensation (two motors, both doing same thing) I thought I had blown head gaskets. I tore the motors down and found nothing wrong. Changed the oil cooler setup and all was good.

Kris Vogt

we were thinking about bypassing the coolers for a test run..... But while we were out running,,, the oil temp was holding at 190..

Reversion? What are the cam specs?

Like has been said above, head gasket, intake gasket, oil cooler, reversion.
Reversion will usually just trash your oil and condensate. It should not raise the oil level.

this could explain why.........

Fixx
 

Reversion,,try and run the water in the pipes over board if you can..did the cylinder heads have valve guides put in them??

please ignore my last post F.., am i ever button stupid.......
jeff you said the motors had been idle for 4 yrs...
assembled and idle??????

Dry stellings. No reversion

Assembled with the valves closed. Means no rockers installed. Engines were sealed.

I am taking off the oil coolers and going to run it tomorrow set up old school like a jet boat. and pull the t stats out.

I can monitor everything with the guages and regulate the temps.

I the problem goes away, I know it is in the coolers. If it is still there, then I know to keep looking.

Most likely this is in the engines somewhere. There is a head bolt leaking, or a head gasket.

intakes are fine. Pulled them. no leakes there. new gaskets tonight. I glue on both sides, so I could run them without the bolts and they still wouldn't leak, but it never hurts to check.

Two tests come to mind as needed at this point. First the coolant system pressure test. Hopefully you run closed cooling. After that I'd do a compression test to confirm you don't have exhaust valve issues.

Are you sure it is not the intake manifold gaskets? Condensation alone will not add that much water to the oil. You have a leak. I would not advise running the boat until you fix it.

Jeff,
I dont know what your financial position is but ..... if the oil looks like a chocolate milkshake, I would personally not run the engines another second without finding the problem. If you do, good chance you will be building a pair of engines :(

If you insist on it, at least drain the oil and put in some 15w40 Mobil 1. That might give them a better chance if the problem is still there.

Just my opinion,

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

He did the intakes already BZ

im thinking you also have a leak somewhere
most likely a head gasket
coolant system check is easy enough just dont whamy the pressure to much
also a posibility is a rear main seal
unlubricated they can deteriorate after time when they dry out
is the bilge bone dry?

When the engines sat for 4 years did they have any water in them.Were they don't on water was were they were keeped heated?Its strange that its both motors.

Just noticed you are from Texas so freezing is unlikely is there a way you can pressure test the coolant passages in the block?If its not the intake its more than likely head gaskets as I doubt both engines have cracked/heads or block.The exhaust is dry so doubt that is the problem but don't know much about dry exhaust.

Fixx
 

only do one thing at a time,just bypass the oil lines going to the coolers first(this way will tell you if the cooler is bad also by monitoring the inlets if theirs water coming out of them)...run the boat,if its still leaking then remove thermostats..when i check for internal leaks i remove the hoses @ the thermostat housing and loop the outlets together with another piece of hose..i have a doohickey made up with a pressure regulator and a gauge,,i install it to the water in on the engine and hook the other end to a garden hose and turn the spigot on,,i will test it starting at 15 psi,that should get the ball rolling if i dont find a leak then i run it up to 21 psi..first check with he engine hot,if no leaks then check it after a few hours..i also have a vacuum set to but you cant tell were the leak is coming from..

ps watch the cooler,you could fill the boat with water if their bad..

I doubt it is the oil cooler. The oil pressure is much higher than the water pressure, so it would just empty the oil pan, not fill it with water. If I had to guess, I would say a head gasket is leaking. It is probably not leaking into a cylinder, but leaking into the lifter valley. This could especially be true after you installed thermostats and the pressure went up. You can either pressurize it with a water hose or you can use a cylinder leak down tester if you don't want to put any more water in it:drink:
Just block off all of the water lines, hook up the leakdown tester and see if it holds. I would not put more than 25 psi in it for pressure or it will lift the head gaskets. I have seen Fel Pro head gaskets lift at higher water pressures and settle back in place at lower pressures. They would not leak until the pressure got high enough. At lower pressures, they were fine. It was tough to pin down the problem. The water would just push past the gasket and into the lifter valley at higher pressures. It left just the slightest sign on the gasket. Obviously, we had to pull the heads to find it. Good luck. Let me know if I can help.
By the way, I'm with Bill. Be careful running it with milk in it. Water is a terrible lubricant.
Eddie

Jeff this may be a dumb ? but did you install the bypass back on when you put the T-stats in? If not then that is your problem.

Hey drop it off on Dereberry Drive :drink::drink:


Jeff is this the boat you bought this spring off ebay fresh and water ready ??? NO way coolers & heads on both motors ...gunna be the head gaskets BIG Daddy from the last build .


more YMI $$:boat:

its the one you are thinking of, but it was not even close to being water ready. 1 engine was cooked. and the other was really rouhgh. Guy I bought it rom neglected it outside for 3 years before he decided to sell it.

It needed everything.

I am with Eddie on it probably being the head gaskets, but I will check the coolers first. I an actualy leaking towards it being the head bolts leaking. I have only had it happen one time. but I have had water leak up throught the head bolts from the water passage.

Either way, It will ge fixed before spring. I wanted an excuse to take them back apart and upgrade cams anyway. :coolcowboy:

THese flat tappet kindergarden cams are wearing me out. :lolhit:

Gotcha :drink::drink::drink::drink::drink::drink::drink:: drink::drink:

you figure out the problem yet?

Worry about it after I get home from Key West. I was only about 74% happy with those engines anyway. :bigbird::bigbird:

Going to upgrade the cam, springs, etc.

There could be head bolts leaking if they're Mark 4 blocks. Gen 5 and 6 have blind head bolt holes. Sounds like head gaskets could be it also.

wish i was in key west...........instead of the wet west!!!!!!!!1

I had same problem 2 years ago, ended up droping a valve and replacing both motors. Alluminum pro comp heads had serious corrosion problems in the water passengways

jeff, what blocks are these engines,and what cylinder heads,i had 1 come my way a few years ago,mark 4 block,gen 5 heads,with the wrong head gasget,had exact issue you are having.the water leaked past the head gasget and ran into the lifter valley.this happens a lot.

i forgot to mention,when on the dyno,the cooling tower will not make more than 2 or 3 psi,thats why you did not see it then,now in the real world,with 10 to 20 lbs water pressure it leaks.

I just got back from KW, and of course now even more motivated to finish it up.

Gonna pull them both and pressure check the water system before I tear them down.

They are brand new engines and heads cams etc and I want them to stay that way so that when I sell it it will be a great buy for someone.

Started working with Bob Madero on some better roller cams for it. Still going to leave them mild, but I want them user friendly and baxically oil change engines so it will be easier to sell.

Going to go ahead and change the rings and bearings so I can make sure that there is no damage from the water being in there.