fuel lines-what to use?? legal?
 

i know there have got to be threads on this already but i just spent a hour searching with no luck. for those who dont know my motor already, i have a mildly built 454 carbed around 450hp. i want to upgrade my fuel system since i skimped on it a little this year to get on the water. i want to use -6 braided lines from the tank to the carb inlet. question 1 is a -6 line enough, i have plans to get as much as 650hp a few years down the road... i would like to set it up for future upgrades so should i go to a -8. my buddy told me to run push loc hose and fittings, i asked is that marine legal and he said he thought so but i am not sure? then i started wondering if standard braided lines are marine legal? the way the law is written i am not sure. anyone have any input on this? in my mind the braided lines would protect anything such as a belt from rubbing a hole through the line so it should be safe.

I have not read the Coast Guards rules on fuel lines, but I am certain that SS braided lines are not within the rules. The CG is requiring a fire safety time which SS braid does not have. I am not 100% on that, but sure some other will chime in.

I am running around 750hp and I ran 5/8" SS hard lines to #10 AN fittings. If you have plans on an up grade, I'd go with the 8AN stuff. If you want to be dead nuts...I am sure there is a calculator somewhere on the net which takes the btu rating of gas along with the eff. of the engine and gives you a volumetric value of supply fuel. But that is getting too much like my job.

LOL here is something of interest.

http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/TS_FuelSys.pdf

damn, according to that a -8 hose is not enough for 600hp. says a -10 which if i recal right is common for oil lines.... does that seem like overkill or is it just me? so are the ss hoses not a good way to go? what is everyone else running? from most pictures i have seen of modified motors everything tends to be ss hoses...

#8 AN hose is fine for 600hp. Actually #8 is closer to 7/16 ID. It is not a full 1/2inch ID. SS braided line is not USCG approved, but in reality it is better than the USCG approved rubber line. Its like having Lifeline PFD's. They are not USCG approved, but the $5 orange junk ones are.

BTW, there is or at least there used to be, an Aeroquip and hose making company just south of 108th and Q St.

thanks griff, thats is the answer i was hoping for. i am going to go -8 just to be safe in the future. thanks for the help guys!

If being legal and safe are concerns of yours, here is a good reference when messing with your fuel system.

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulatio...uel_intro.aspx

Here is the chapter on hoses -

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulatio...rds_parti.aspx

it's just a deal of certification....and we know the braided stuff is going to be far more fire retardent than the rubber hose that is...

For your piece of mind the Aviation Industry relies on braided stainless line. If it is good enough for airplanes it is more than enough for my boat. At least if my boat catches on fire I can just jump over the side into water, try that in an airplane. :lolhit:

Use at least -8. I have been inspected by the Coast Gaurd often and the braided lines were not an issue. Flares, jackets and fire exting are high on their list.

I have been told that the AN stands for Army Navy and were designed originally for military. Can anyone back that up, if this is the case why in the hell would the Coast Guard not approve it.
I used 6AN hoses and fittings on mine. I have very short runs, my longest hose is maybe 3' long. If I had to do it over I would have used 8AN for future upgrades.
Not sure if this makes a difference but I have a return line with Holley MPI at 42psi.

i have heard army navy and also aircraft something? either way they are being used in airplanes and they are super strict on stuff like that from my understandings....

I considered braided lines on my fuel system, knowing full-well they were better than rubber. Then the possibility of an insurance claim entered my mind and decided not to give the insurance company ANY leeway if the boat were to catch fire. I could hear the adjuster, " Sorry, claim is denied. Fuel line was not Coast Guard approved." That's just me.

I have spend hours researching this and I agree. It might not be right, but it must be C.G. approved.

If that is the case, skip the rubber and have hardline bent up. Looks awesome if polished and should hold up better than rubber.

I am not trying to bust your chops, but I see this all the time. This is folklore. Read your policy and look for the exclusion that says that if you use non coast guard approved equipment your claim can be denied. You will not find such an exclusion.

The biggest problem with using SS braided hose and why it is not CG approved on a fuel system is that it could easily come in contact with a +12 volt power source, cause a spark and catch on fire. Because the braided hose is in contact with the engine, carb, etc. it will be grounded. If it were to touch a power source like a battery cable, alternator lead, ignition coil, etc it would cause a hell of a spark. It could get hot, melt the inner rubber hose, leak fuel and cause a fire.
I use Push-loc hose. Generally I use -10. In this case with the potential of 625+ hp, I would go with -10, which has a 5/8" ID.
Eddie

Eddie,
Not trying to get this thread off path but what fuel cooler can we use with a -10 between the pump and motor on an EFI application, or should ot be left out?
Thanks
cbell

I don't use a cooler. As long as you return the fuel to the tank there is no need for a cooler. If you insist on using a cooler, don't put it in the pressure side of the fuel system. You want to put it in the return side, ie. after the regulator.
Eddie

can't see where the braided would be any different there as with solid steel that they like to use...

i just sent the coast guard a email asking this. ok, the only arguement with the stainless braided lines is it could cause a spark? so how about nylon braided lines?

here is a link to some

http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/632143/10002/-1

Fuel hose
 

I'm a earls dealer in michigan. The coast guard wants marine fuel hoses to have a fire and permeation rating. This is a USCG type A-1 under deck rating. Stainless braided hose has not been tested by the manufactures for these tests. When a manufacture uses stainless braided hose in his boat the CG deams it a racing application. This has insurance issues. The hose is also designed for racing fuels. Pump gas has additives that can permerate thru the hose. If you boat is a family pleasure and is inspected buy the insurance company, You must use a USCG type A-1 hose.

my insurance company has never seen my boat and never will. i have had the same compnay insuring my boats for 10 years and they have never seen a single boat or skee that i have had. i find it odd that a they use stainless lines in a airplane which has the some of the highest safety can use these lines or similar but people are saying that they are no acceptable for a boat? or a drag car... and in a car you can run a cheap crappy rubber hose... not saying anyone is wrong on this by any means, just seems odd to me that boats have such high standards and a car on the road could explode just as easily as a boat but doesnt have the high standards.

i have been boating since i was a little kid, i have owned boats and skees since i was in my teens and i or anyone i know has never once been stopped and checked for any of the common items by coast guard or the insurance company. they usually ask for registration and life jackets, tell me my boat is a little loud and send me on my way lol.

like i said i am not saying that anyone here is not correct and am not trying to start a argument. i am just wanting to know what fuel lines i need

I have been stopped by the CG a few times, never had the fuel line questioned. They seemed to care more about the battery post being covered.

Hard line will not flex or move like SS braided line

With hard line you are stuck with brass fittings that do not flow at all and are restrictive.

Some stock merc fuel injection lines are braided SS.

i am pretty sure i am using the traditional "AN" style braided lines. most people use them and from what i have read online they are not gonna be a issue.

next deal is a new fuel pick up.... any suggestions?

Just remove the checkvalve and install a ANfitting on the pickup. I emailed you a picture of what someone else did, he seemed to think that worked well. I may change mine this winter.

I just make my own. The stock pickup is nothing more than a plastic tube. The problem isn't so much the tube diameter. It isn't very big, but the hole in the aluminum fitting is only about 3/16". On top of that, when you screw an adapter fitting into it, you end up blocking half of the hole. I have seem them where the hole ends up being not much more than 1/8" when it's all said and done. I use 1/2" id S.S. tubing with a 3/8" x #10 90* SS fitting. First I bore out the pipe thread side of the fitting so that it is also 1/2". That is why I use SS, so it is still strong enough after boring the fitting. Then the tube is tig welded in place. This is enough pickup to support over 1000 hp.
I would be glad to make one for you if you need it.
Eddie

Folklore, or not......piece of mind for me, personally. I would certainly hate to be the exception.

Nice....... Baja's use a alluminum pickup with a restrictive 90* fitting then a check valve. When I did mine I just removed the valve and installed a AN fitting on the elbo, I still have the restrictive fitting on mine. A while back a guy posted a pic were he removed the restrictive fitting and installed a ANfitting right to the pickup tube. Not as good as the one shown here but I think for the most boats it would work well.

i need to pull mine this weekend and figure out what is there right now. i had it out a year ago but i cant remember what was there. thanks to all for the advice! :)