meth injection
 

Anyone use it on a boat. Looking at possibly adding it as an extra insurance policy for the Procharger. You can have these systems come on at say 3.5 PSI of boost and help with cooling when running wide open. I know the intention of running Meth allows you to run more boost on less octane but is the reason it wont work at lower boost?

By no means am I an expert on this, but the problem I see with having it come on so early is the quantity of meth you would need. If the engine is tuned to run the meth at say 3 psi, then if you run out, you will have problems. If you have an engine set up to run 8 psi of boost, then it will hit 3 psi pretty easily, not only at wide open. The few guys I know running it go through it pretty quickly. You will need a pretty big tank to run it that much.
Eddie

it will work with lower boost as long as she's tuned for it
u can set them to come on at any level of boost but 3.5 is a bit premature .. call rudy at Ice Injection 302-367-4962

I just pulled 3.5 PSI as an example. Situation is the procharger is set to run 5 PSI on a stock 502 on premium fuel. The idea of adding meth is to compensate for possible fuel quality, help with detonation and increase cooling and act as an insurance policy to the already set system to run at 5 PSI without having the need of Meth. It may be a case that it comes on prgressive at 4 and full at 5 PSI.

I love the idea of it. Would be nice to set motor up where it can run on pump gas at say 7psi without detonation. Then add the methanol for safety where maybe it comes on at 6psi and above?. I would think just adding methanol to the mix would be worth a few HP from cooling the air charge???? Im sure theres a way to rig up a pressure sensor or something should the pump go out. Similar to a fuel psi sensor or similiar. Tie it into a led light on the dash and a warning buzzer should the methonal system go out. Or maybe IAT gauges?


Maybe use the freshwater tank for methanol? I think my freshwater tank is 20 gallons??

or just spray water from 4 to 7 and meth from 7 +

methanol eats everything , may want to check out that fresh water tank first .... dont want to spring a leak and have it run to the Bilge :eek: they say it burns good :drink:

Guys up here just run windsheild washer fluid in their turbo sleds.

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turbo sleds:eek:

dont compare them to a boat motor we spray 1.5 gallons every 2 mins per motor when them Red lites are on and layin into the boost ..good luck :drink:

meth
 

GT Marine runs that set up in there 1,600 HP monster. The one that ran 178 MPH at Desert storm. sick motors!!!

ya that wouldnt be a good thing! Would plain water be suffice as a supplement to cool things down, or is methanol a necessity on a low boost app? I know some kits do the mix of water/methonal (windshield washer juice)?

i like the guys at Ice injection, running a blown 565 at 14psi making gobs of horsepower and a mild hyd roller cam! 300+ hours and still ran great? That sounds like a winning setup! :drink:

the stuff works great, as stated just run windshield washer fluid, works awsome, I actually built my own kit 40 years ago on a supercharged S/B ford street car I was playing with...thinking about doing the same with my pro-charger

Different application than what you guys do. If the red lite comes on, the system is still safe as the procharger was designed to run at 5PSI. Its just an insurance policy.

Rudys got it worked out in the boat application thats 4 sure ,never tried wind wash juice but it all boils down to how much meth you have on board , i guess if you stop for fuel on the water can alwayz grab 20 or 40 bottles of windshield wash :lolhit:

That is WildWarriors boat. 377 Hustler Talon, by no means a fast hull, has been north of 160mph on that setup. I went for a ride on it at 147mph with 5 guys on board and two full tanks of fuel. Still pulling hard when we threw a blower belt.

They spray straight methanol in those engines. Rudy just pulled them out with 300 hours each because "it just seemed like time". Leakdowns are still great though.

You can use water or meth, or any combination of the two. I personally prefer to use straight meth for performance reasons, but water does have some advantages... such as cost, availability, and lack of flammability. Windshield washer fluid typically has about 15% to 20% meth in it and works fine for most basic applications. Whatever you set the system up for, you should stick with the same going forward as the AF ratio of the engine is often tuned around the meth system... well at least it should be to get the most out of the system.

All the systems I've setup use a GM MAP sensor and a progressive controller. You can set the turn on point, the rate of ramp up and the pressure. With a system like this, kicking the system on at 3 psi and ramping it up from there is easy and pretty seamless up to max boost. But even a very basic system can be done w/o the progressive controller, but you dont want to kick it on too low and it leaves some power, tuneability, and control on the table.

As mentioned, it's not hard to add some safeties in the system. The safeties become important as you start adding more and more meth (it becomes a significant portion of your fuel needs and a failure would cause a lean condition). Some may say, just tune the engine w/o the system and then spray on top of the existing tune. The problem with this is it fattenes everything up and you lose power as the mixture gets more and more rich. IMO, the safest way to use this is in small quantities. It doesn't take much to cool the charge and add a little octane (if you're using meth), but with a small shot of it on an engine that is tuned for it will not lean it out too much if the system were to fail. BUT, after you see what a larger shot of straight meth can do over pump gas, the rewards can be HUGE when everything is tuned for it. My street car can make 1200+ hp with meth and pump gas... I'd never try it w/o the meth! I'm sure I could push it further, but no need to. :D

Meth injection has a ton of potential and works amazingly, but you have to understand a system failure would need to be caught quickly or it could cost you your engine in a matter of seconds!

I remember reading an old post here where some guy did a water injection that was plumbed into his cooling system? Think he had it tapped into the sea strainer.

a system failure would need to be caught quickly !!!!!
DING DING DING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ever heard of a thingy called a KNOCK SENSOR:drink:

I sure have and I wouldn't want to rely on just a KS to save my engine! Most KS systems on big HP engines are non factory installed (but use GM parts) and can be decent tools. They are often glued or bolted to the engine where ever they can conveniently be placed and often with little tuning or filtering in place. To work correctly they basically need a trained person to set them up properly and get them integrated into the ECU correctly if the system is to be active... If not they will often give a lot of false signals. And I've also seen a lot of them not even setup to do anything when knock is sensed! Even passive KS systems have some value if the operator knows what they are looking for and keeps a close eye on things.

I like to think of them as a good tuning tool, but I wouldn't bet my big dollar engine on just an aftermarket KS system!

and knock sensors have been known to detect a bad bearing on the way out and save a motor .... stop shopping at Harbour frieght :lolhit:


you posted str8 meth for performance reasons , dyno sheets to confirm your theory or you just feel the ground shake in a street care ??? inquiring minds want to know :drink:

Filtered water coming right off the sea water pump, unlimited supply. No extra octane, but it still cools the air charge and controls detonation.
In a piston engine, the initial injection of water cools the fuel-air mixture significantly, which increases its density and hence the amount of mixture that enters the cylinder. An additional effect comes later during combustion when the water absorbs large amounts of heat as it vaporizes, reducing peak temperature and resultant NOx formation, and reducing the amount of heat energy absorbed into the cylinder walls. This also converts part of combustion energy from the form of heat to the form of pressure. As the water droplets vaporize by absorbing heat, it turns to high pressure steam (water vapor or steam mainly resulted from combustion chemical reaction), that would add engine output.

I'm not sure what you're saying or asking here (???)
I've played with both water, meth, and mixtures for years. Even nitro, water, meth mixes (water doesn't mix with nitro BTW). Nitro is cool ****, but needs huge quantities to be really beneficial. Water and weaker meth mixes are good for cheap liquid IC and warding off some detonation. Unfortunately, you can only spray so much water before it becomes counter productive. No question, you can make more power with straight meth! With meth you can spray as much as you want, up until you completely replace all the gas with meth if you wanted to (assuming the tuning was in place). Meth has more of a latent cooling effect and has the added benefit of having a high natural octane (which water obviously doesn't). So not only does it cool more, it's also like a race gas in itself. For these reasons straight meth is capable of making more power than water or any water meth mixture. And again, since it's fuel, it's easier to integrate and tune around.

Still pulling hard :eek:

you can say that twice Phil Its a Hard pullin MoFo:drink:

I tried meth injection for the first time two days ago. That $hit works great, all kinds of power but I can't sleep. Might as well do another injection and stay up untill New Years. Party on, typed all this in less than 3 seconds, going to jog around the block for a couple of hours, gotta love meth.:eek:

hahaha alright that was funny!:drink:

u mean Crank

Last year we had this discussion on here, as far as "windshield washer fluid' were I live you can buy 55 gallon drums of the stuff, it IS methanol alcohol with no soap or water added and just a tint of blue dye and it cost next to nothing, used to be 55 cents a gallon, I think last time I checked it was 120$ a 55 gallon drum. I have kicked it around, the biggest drawback I see is it is SUPER corrosive and attacks EVERYTHING so you would never want any of it laying inside motor or heads (leaking/malfunctioning injection system) and remember. stoic on it is around 6- 6.5-1 so IF you replace too much fuel with it and actually tune for it you will need ALOT, Smitty

It's cheaper to buy the meth straight in a 55 gal. drum and mix it yourself (if you choose to run a mix).

I've been using straight meth for many years in several vehicles and have never had any issues with corrosion in the engines or elsewhere. This includes spraying it in aluminum IC pipes and running it through the all aluminum Z06 and Viper engines. In fact if anything, not only have I never seen a hint of corrosion issues anywhere, but every time I've torn stuff down the inside of the everything looks extremely clean. I will admit that it is corrosive, but as long as your meth system is built correctly (hoses and O-rings are meth compatible), you should not have to worry about it at all.

To further prove the point, I had a failure in the system I did in the Viper. I moved the meth tank one day and fu@ked up by failing to install a spring loaded check valve in the system. The new location caused it to siphon 2.5 gal of straight meth into the IC pipes when I left the car sit. Well the car sat for about two months w/o use until I went to start it again. Let's just say it didn't start and it was a major PITA to drain all the meth out of everything, including both IC's and the engine (from when I went to start it). But the point I wanted to make is there was no sign of any corrosion in the aluminum IC's or anywhere else after having the straight meth sitting in there for months.

As far as stoich goes, yes it's different for meth. Meth is around 6.4:1. The best way is just read the lambda, but if you wanted to read a typical AF gauge that is calibrated to gas, you still can. Since stoich for meth is 6.4, an afr of 4.5 would be 4.5/6.4 = 0.7 lambda. And since the gauge is scaled for gasoline (stoich = 14.7), the gauge would read 0.7*14.7 = 10.3 afr when the methanol afr is really 4.5. Hopefully that makes sense. But again, that's for straight meth.

But when tuning with pump gas and spraying meth, you basically still tune to your traditional target (say 11:1 on a FI engine) since the meth is such a small portion of your overall fuel being supplied. I prefer to read the raw lambda data and shoot for around .75-.8 to be plenty safe under boost, but most people just tune to a AF gauge calibrated for gas and have no issues. Again, it doesn't take all that much meth to make a huge difference in lowering your IAT and drastically reduce detonation. I can't imagine it would be practical to spray so much meth that you had to actually tune for it rather than gas...

So who's running meth, water, or a mix injection on there marine engine(s)?

scot of your not careful I may start to think you know your SHEET.

I checked out you site good stuff.
I'm running 509's W/3.3 whipples and single carb motors. We are hoping for 800 + - Hp. Would there be any advantage running your system on smaller engines like mine? I lost all my teeth last time I injected meth.

Happy New Year Glen,Rudy & Patty :ernaehrung004::ernaehrung004::party-smiley-048:

Happy New Year Wild Bill,Pinky and the boy's.

Hope all is well!

Absolutely BIG Daddy counting down the New Year with lots of Hurricane,Grey G@@se & Red Bull ..:drink:

FYI.... better tell rudy that Meth really does'nt gel or eat Aluminum :lolhit: all that testing and hes got it all wrong :bigbird:, them racers that drain there meth tanks every weekend them too :eek:

Wild Bill,
Even more than the corrosive characteristics ,Meth absorbs moisture like a sponge. That's another reason we drain the Methanol as well as run Marvel Mystery oil through pumps, injectors etc. to pull out residue and moisture.
The aluminum and approved plastic tanks are fine with meth .We ran 16 nozzle Meth injection in my 1951 Promod race car and we had to be very careful not to clog injectors with old meth residue. We burned a few pistons within seconds with clogged injectors.

Happy Holidays!

Glen your scarin me now, actually soundin like youi know what your talkin bout ....:eek:


Happy,Healthy,Safe,Prosperous 2011:drink::drink::drink::drink:

What size carburetor are you running?

Keep them EGTs down BIG Daddy :drink:

:ernaehrung004::ernaehrung004: