Who is running solid rollers?
 

I thought it would be interesting to see how many guys are running solid roller cams and get some of the numbers. Also has anyone ever had major problems running these type of cams?

I use a comp solid grind
Duration 272/280 @ .050" lift
Lift .714"
Installed 112 + 4
In a high compression N/A 496".

No major problems with this set up, but only have 12 hrs on it. A couple of motors ago I had some valve springs braek, but luckily no major damage. Changed the springs and was good to go.
Has anyone ever lost a roller lifter? Just hunting for some more useless gearhead knowledge.

I'm running a cam very close to yours. Mine has a little less duration. 258/264 @.050"

The only problem I had with it so far is a lifter broke. After some investigating I found that I had too much spring pressure for the lifter i was running. I changed the springs and now use a marine/endurance lifter and hopefully I won't have any problems.

Most of my friends have solid rollers in there boats. One guy had over 200 hours on his small blocks with no problems.

Wette Vette you know mine;

Comp solid 280/288 @.050 .785/.760 lift on 115centerline +2

Just changed comp 948-16 springs after 45 hrs, they were starting to sag...seats pressures down to 270-280# vs 330# when new.

I'm running hydraulic rollers (no problem to date), but my friend Keith (Hot Pursuit) is using solid rollers (Isky) and has broken several recently. They have less than 5 hours. He replaced his old rollers, which had over 100 hours with these new ones. Supposedly Isky has a fix in their newest*new lifter.

He's lost two cams this season, plus roller needles in his oil pump, broken oil pump shaft, etc. Amazingly, the bearings look good (he's using Amsoil)

WOW!!! those are some BIG duration numbers @ .050 Doesn't seems like those cams would work very well with those kind of duration numbers...they just seem awefully big. They must make enough torque on the bottom to work well enough for you guys I guess, but it just doesn't seem like it would plane off that well with cams that size---whew!

Last year I was using a 236*/244* on a 114* lobe seps cam but I still think it's still a little on the large side so now I'm going with a 228*/236* on a 114* lobe seps in a pair of 540 cubic inch engines....but then of course these are hydraulic rollers that I'm using. But even for solid rollers and for the cubes you guys are running those duration numbers just seem quite large. It doesn't mean I'm right---just seems too large though.

KAAMA, I hear that a lot. My motor has 13.2:1 compression and it makes 180 PSI cranking pressure. It is a little tempermental around the docks. It is in a 2800 Lb boat so there is still plenty of torque to get it out of the hole with some authority.:D JDNCA1 is running that huge cam in a 10.5 Comp 632. It idles at 600 RPM in gear and pulls almost as hard as mine in the mid range and runs 100 MPH plus in his 26 Carrerra Cat!!!

26 Scarab,
I recall you changed your springs this year. When your lifter failed what happened? Did it do any other damage? I am running the Comp 951 spring set at 240# on the seat. Comp says no prob up to about 7500 RPM which I will never see. I am running the comp racing roller lifter and I know it can handle these springs. In your buddy's small block has he ever changed springs or lifters?

WetteVette.
When that lifter went I heard a change of tone in the motor just as I was getting off plane. But I still ended up taking out the cam. It looked like the trunion just came apart.

On my buddies small block, he didn't change anything in those 200 hours. I think he checked the lash maybe once a year.

Kaama,
I too here the same thing, but the motor I dynoed made good power and torque all thru the power band. It did like to be spun to 5800. Also these cams seem to make good power in a low compression motor. My buddies 565" made 720hp @5800 and it only has 8:5.1 cr. It has an old set of D ports on it.
I do like the route that you took though. Your motor is VERY impressive for the RPM's you turn and the hyd. cam.

Unless there is something new on the market (been a few years since I did any engine work) expect about 50 hrs on the solid rollers (big block, small block is much easier on them). Have tried Crane, Isky, Erson, Crower & Jessel (probaly a few I have forgotton). The Jessel are $$, but none of the engines I put them in have enough hours on them yet to tell if they will last longer.

Most of the time I go past 50 hours there is trouble.

Solve this and you will rule the engine world. Note that the new Merc engine has a rebuild at 50 hours included in the price.

26 Scarab,

Did you idle your motor a lot? I have heard there isn't enough oil windage at low rpm to keep the cam lubed. Your new lifters probably have that oil groove in it to let some oil get to the cam at low rpm. I boat on a small lake and don't have to idle very much. Once I clear the 200' buoy it's hammer down time. Some say solid rollers like 6000 rpm better than idle. I have noticed solids are showing up more on street applications. Probably when I get 50 to 75 hrs I will change springs and lifters to be safe.

I guess I did forget to mention I was running that cam in a 632, the cubes help make a lot of torque down low where normally a big cam like that would suffer. Amazingly, the motor is very snappy through out the powerband...I started with an Erson 272/278 @.050 similar lift on 114 center, the motor just ran out of cam @5900...I picked up 40 hp and lost no torque by stepping up 10 degrees in duration. Motor has a Dart tunnel ram with 2X775 Race Demons and literally idles @ 650rpm in gear, 900-1000rpm in. I get the "BIG CAM" comment alot, but "cubes" makes a big difference and I guess I hang around too many drag racers...thats a "small" cam to most of them. For example I have a buddy that runs mustang Pro with a 360 small block ford running a bigger cam than I do...of course his comp is 17:1 and he turns 10,200rpm. I make 901HP @6700, he makes 940hp @9700...Now that my friend is impressive.;) :cool:

MBam(Marc)---
Only 50 hours??? Holy smokes dude that's not much time is it? Heck that's pratically 1/2 to 1/3 of my boating season!!! Shoot man, I'd be in a lot of trouble.......or broke!------and neither one of those are good! But I do believe you know what you're talking about. I have seen your boat running out on Lake Michigan too long over the years and for a V-bottom I know you never exactly had a SLOW boat so I don't take your comments lightly.

jdnca1---
okay, yeah 632 cubes isn't exactly a small block! In fact my 540's are pretty much small blocks compared to yours. I can see where it would eat up that cam in a heartbeat!

26Scarab---
Yeah, that hyd roller (620-630hp) did pretty well in my boat last year for a hyd roller that is . Over the winter (you may already know this) I had JimV fully port my Dart Pro-1's and bump the CR up to 9.67 and go to a 950cfm carb and with a 244*/244* on a 112* LS it made 682hp @5500rpm and 699hp @5750rpm. But I think I was blowing a lot of raw fuel out the exhaust. I believe the cam was too big and had too much overlap and the headers were over scavenging (spelling?) the exhuast which is why it was pulling raw fuel out. I like an EFFICIENT running engine so we stepped down a few degrees in cam size. I probably didn't have to go down to a 228*/236* on a 114* LS but I know it will give me a lot more torque down low and be very strong in my cruising range which is where I do most of my boating anyway and of course I will be sacrificing some hp off the top end but I believe it will only be something like 10-15hp. I willing to sacrifice a little hp off the top for some added torque. After all, torque is what MOVES THE MASS and it can be very intimidating! Plus, it will have even a smoother idle than last year which (now that I'm older) is what I like----especially around the docks/traffic and just plain shifting in/out of gear makes it a whole lot nicer to work with and is much easier on parts!

MBAM;
The drag racer I mentioned has tried everything from a lifter standpoint...even a $2900 set. His take is that he has the best luck with Comp lifters. He changes valve springs after every 3 passes....could you imagine that!!! over 1.00" of lift will tend to "ingest" springs though... I run comp lifters, first set had 40 hrs on them and were changed out due to having the motor apart for another reason. I went with the heavier lifters with the oil groove this time around, we'll see how long those will last.

For hydraulic roller lifters I use the Comp brand as well too. I know a few other boaters who've had really good success with them with several hours on them.

Wette Vette
Do you have any idea as to when you are going to do some more testing? I would like to come over your way and if nothing else say "hey" and also observe your rocket,if you dont mind? are you the man on that lake now? I remember you telling me about a guy that had big cubic engines from Cal City but they didnt last long, Is he still running on your lake? also had the occasion to have guys from one of your local dealers install a boat lift at my house and he sort of indicated that he had a outboard that was a strong runner.??
Where do you guys hang out during the winter and evenings? Is Mikes boat running well this year? My regards to both of you. We still appreciate the help you guys gave my wife and I the time we were at your lake with our Howard. Would probaly still be stuck at the ramp!!:D :D :D
Regards, eliminator219

Les,

I will be doing some more testing as soon as this weather gets a little better. I have your business card and will give you a call sometime and maybe I can try your 30 Bravo prop. As for being the fastest on our lake I know of 1 boat that is faster than me. He is a friend of mine and he is running an Obsession 234 (Eliminator 234 Edge) with a blown 540 (860 HP). We radared him at 99 mph!! He is going to be trying a short bravo soon and is hoping for more. I think his boat will gain a lot from this. Mike bought a 1995 22 Velocity last year and is looking to do some engine mods soon. I am putting some IMCO steering on it for him this weekend. What kind of boat do you have now? 30 Eliminator Daytona? Talk to you soon.

Craig

I am really surprised more guys aren't running solid rollers!

WetteVette---
Well, I was honestly considering running solid rollers but it's those HIGH spring pressures that pounds everything into pieces. And if you catch something before it breaks it still requires lots of maintenance. That means replacing springs/lifters because BEFORE they DO break so that you're not taking a risk. My opinion is that they're just not for your average every day boater. And one either can pay to have someone else do it and has deep pockets (and this stuff can be somewhat addicting even if one DOESN'T have deep pockets) OR must be well versed with engines to do this kind of stuff yourself and STILL have the $$$ to pay for replacing the parts.
Personally, I don't mind sacrificing the HP by not going with a solid roller and settle for a hyd. roller instead. They're virtually maintenance free....you still have to keep an eye on the lifters but I don't think it is as near as critical with the much lighter spring pressures as opposed to the higher spring pressures of a solid roller...but those solid rollers do make power, I will grant you that for sure. Personal preference I guess and I have a lot of respect for they guys who DO run the solid rollers---but I think I will stick with the "sissy" cams for now. :o

Who is using soilds?not me!!
 

Craig,
You are welcome to use any of my props that you would like. By the way, you mention that you had a friend that was going to try a short shaft, I have a pair of 2" in shorts that are not even on the boat at this time. I have the standards on now. If you would like to try the short shaft with a 30 or 32 or 36 you are welcome, Just let me know!
By the way, if you would dig out one of your old hotboat magazines, Try the Oct 01 and go to drive and prop testing, Mine is the customers boat. I had it brought back here toward the end of last summer, The trip took its toll on the trailer, Im working on it now, just got thru putting GPS and radios on, Didn't need them out west. Lake Michigan Whole different ball game. When summer ever gets
here I plan on entering some of these pocker runs, thats why I haven,t been advertising too much about my boat. They wouldn,t let me run the 26' Howard last year, said it was to small!! I mention that the only boat That I see that could beat me was the big Skater "Tom Cat" Now understand, If i wanted to lie and say my boat was longer they would let me in, Hell, too many people know that Howards Cats are 26 foot, so what would be the use of spending all that money to later be disqualified..
Craig, keep in touch,Let me know when you guys are running. love to watch!! take care, eliminator219

solid lifters
 

Solid lifters were real cool on 60's 327 motors! Are you as old as me to remember that?

Eliminator 219,
When my friends boat gets back from the shop we will be trying some props and doing some radaring to see what we can get out of it. I will send you an e-mail and let you know. It should be fun. Also if you ever need a hand in testing or running your new ride let me know and I will be glad to get a experienced crew together. I like being the guy holding the radar gun in my friends boats.

Formula 233,
I cannot remember the days when 327, and 427 Chevys came equipt with solid lifters. I do however have a solid roller in my boat and do a lot of tuning for friends who have solids in their cars and boats. The maintenance free hydraulic lifter cams have come a long way, but the solid lifter cams give you the ability to do some extra tinkering and tuning you just cannot do with hydraulic and I really enjoy it.

Hey Jdnca1,
I have a buddy that runs the Super street outlaw class with a 84 Mustang. They are running 8:teens with a nitrous set up. I think the record in that class is 7:90 and that is with a turbo car. It's a shame about Grebeck.

Kaama,
I don't disagree with you about the hassles of solid rollers. But with the heads I have (bought cheap) that was the way to make the power. Joey Griffin also told us max life would be around 50 hours. That is usually a season for me. Just about everyone I know runs solid rollers, and I have seen them go allot longer than the 50 , but I will change mine once a season.:)

WetteVette,
I don't think I idle too much , but you are correct the lifters I have now have an oil groove cut into them. The Jesel stuff is sweet but WAY too expensive. I do use Jesel rocker arms though. I don't have to run all that stud girdle stuff, what a headache:)

26 scarab;

yea that was too bad...my buddy was there racing his and saw the whole thing go down. He is running 8.50's Natural...with a single quad, has bee having some problems with his clutch set-up this season though. In his class they can only run 10.5" tires and no wheelie bars...I saw him drag his rear bumper last yr he was hooking up so well. I used to think high performance boating was nuts, this guy works on his car 30+hrs a week.:p

I eliminated most of my roller lifter problems
when i stopped useing Pete Jacksons gear
drives. I was told they cause harmonic
vibration.
I use Harlin Sharp rockers, Crower lifters
and K Motion 1000 springs.

Jdnca1,
It sounds like your buddy is running the same class as mine. Ask him if he knows Jim and John Clement.


Blown 1100,
Pete Jackson gear drives ?!?!? Are we talking 50's lead sleds ?:D
How about the spark plugs in the exhaust pipes shooting flames:p

We used to use mechanical rollers, they make great power but their hard on parts. They beat up the exhaust seats as well. Also they need rebuilding after 80 to 100 hours although I broke them in less time. Under 6000 rpm's you can get close with a hydraulic roller.

Jim V
Have you done any testing with NOS on the blower
yet. I hope to dyno in three weeks, will let you
know how it works.
Loy

26Scarab
Pete Jackson timeing gear sets have nothing
to do with outdrives.;)

Hey Loy

I changed to a tunnel ram and fuel injection. It should be easier on the drive. I either had to buy a B-max or cut back on the power. I cant keep up with you big dogs

Tell us more about the injcted motor!
 

How many cubes and how much HP. Also will solid lifter cams set off a knock detector on injected motors?

WETTE VETTE

Its a 565ci. 10.5:1 hydraulic roller. It has an aftermarket injection system, laptop programable so it wont have a knock sensor. It made 720hp at 8.5:1 with a smaller cam. While on the dyno with my blower motor a few years ago I swapped to the tunnel ram to see how much power it would make. Im hoping for 750hp with this combination

Re: Who is using soilds?not me!!
 

is this the tomcat you are talking about

Blown 1100 ,
Outdrives ?:confused:

I was joking about the Pete Jackson gear drive, around here you see them on allot of the "old timer street rods" , they love the whining sound... kind of like a red neck supercharger :D
I've never heard of one in a boat , I would assume a Jesel belt drive is the way to go.

JimV ,
Very impressive looking motor.

Mike,
I got the opportunity to drive Eliminator 219's 26 Howard right after he brought it back from Teague. I finally figured out that Eliminator 219 is the same guy and I figured he must be an Eliminator owner, duh. He is preparing for a grand entrance for this season. From what I know about Les he likely does have a 120 plus mph Eliminator Daytona. He gave a clue about the one used for prop testing in the Oct '01 Hot Boat magazine. I cannot find that issue so I can only guess his boat is a 28 or 33 Daytona. As for which Skater Tomcat, I have no clue, but the two I have read about are baaaaad aaaass!!! Not to many gonna beat them.;) I will race them through the 1/4 mi from a dead stop. Does that count?

Craig AKA WETTE VETTE:D

sure does
 

tomcat and Scotty Cannon (Oakley Funny car driver) raced last summer. It takes a little while to get that big cat up and going. Scotty has a 25 Talon with a pro mod motor and about a 500 shot of NOS.

Cannon has all of the bases covered.
 

Has the 36 Skater, which really makes him top dog. Then he has the bad ass Talon for the occasional smart ass that wants to race a 1/4 mi drag. Oh to have generous sponsers must be very nice:p I know, I'll challenge him to beer races. Those four years at Purdue will come in handy after all.:D I'll bet that pro mod motor has a wicked solid roller in it!!!! What is the compression and what kind of fuel does he run? Bravo Drive?

He's a true drag racer
 

He doesn't have the Skater just the Talon
Tom had the Skater and at the same time he had a 28 Skater with built triple 2.5's on NOS. Cannon raced that boat also and bet the 28. Cannon beat the 36 and then ran out of juice and the Skater came on strong and beat Cannon. It would have been fun to see what would have happen if Cannon would have not ran out of juice:rolleyes:

Solid lifters,Toys for gearheads!!
 

Craig and other quater milers:D :D
you really said a mouthful, Tom cat is one bad ass!!
also take your pick as to which one of them!Both Tom Cats
I really dont want to mess with. You going from a start or Even at a roll could eat them up with your water rocket for a quatermile.However, get out of the way shortly after the quater of a mile you dont want to be too close as they go by, the wake and tail could drown you!!! Only kidding, I know if you could see them in action you would be impressed, I know that I was..
By the way, dont need someone to hold the radar gun this year, Installed GPS!But sure have room for you and a friend to go along, should be a great time anyway!!
Keep in touch!
:D :D :D Eliminator219