Originally Posted by Falcon (Post 3403298)

The reason more hp is available with the right map strictly for e85 is because, like all alcohol based fuels, it contains oxygen right in the fuel. Kind of a way to cheat to get a better breathing engine. This comes at a price, since oxygen is mixed in with the fuel, you have less actual fuel per gallon so you need a lot more of it. I like the performance possibilities, but at what cost for everyday use.

Originally Posted by mcollinstn (Post 3403066)

Not exactly.....
A typical gasoline engine (jetted properly) burns about 0.50 lb of gas per hour per hp. Same engine running on E85 (with jetting and a small increase in ignition timing to match) burns about 0.65 lb of E85 per hour per hp.

Typical gasoline weighs 6.1 lb per gallon.
E85 weighs 6.6 lb per gallon.

A typical engine putting out 100hp will burn 50 lbs of gas per hour (this is 8.2 gallon per hour).
Same engine tuned properly for E85 will burn 65 lbs of E85 per hour (this is 9.9 gallon per hour).

Gentlemen, this is a 21% increase in "fuel consumption" as measured in fuel used per time unit.

This is a far better deal than the suggested "39%" increase in fuel rate.

Additionally, in pretty much all engines over 9.5:1 compression, E85 produce equal hp with only fuel jetting and basic ignition timing adjustments. Nothing dramatic, but certainly not a REDUCTION of available hp. In any engine that is equipped with a knock retard, E85 will consistently make more hp than gasoline in hotter, humid conditions as well as in cold dense air situations (providing that the engine is jetted and the ignition is adjusted for E85).

Now, if you do not bump the timing and make certain that the engine receives the required fuel volume, then you will end up making less power - that's a given. But for such minor adjustments, the results are very acceptable.

This in no way constitutes a recommendation for people to swarm to become E85 converts. It is just my attempt to quell some bad information that is floating around.

Now, let's talk about performance motors. Start bumping the compression or adding boost to where premium unleaded is no longer adequate, and E85 becomes an even MORE desirable alternative with its high effective octane number (105).

In absolutely ALL cases of turbo/supercharging/high static CR - E85 (when properly tuned to match) will produce more HP from the same engine as pump gas will.

I don't run E85 in anything of my own...
Yet.

I've run race gas in things that needed it. While expensive, race gas is easy to tune with, delivers consistent performance, and requires no odd practices for engine longevity.

I've run exotic stuff such as Nutec and other really amazing fuels, but they require being flushed immediately from the system else you will regret it.

With the dropping cost of E85 and its performance benefits, it has become a very real and interesting option.

I believe E85 will burn with a visible flame, so you don't run the risk of being burned alive invisibly like you would with straight corn juice. The fuel system modifications needed are very well known and easily done.

I don't consider E85 to be the evil witch's brew that some others do.

MC

Originally Posted by CigDaze (Post 3404068)

Beautiful post. The premise to my argument is same as what you expounded upon...without the proper mods (either manually or electronically), you will lose performance - but you can compensate for it. Either way, one thing that's indisputable, and as we both mentioned, your gallon per hour rate will increase.