New engine rod knock...........
#21
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I do tuning on the Mefi's as well as Mark. What I won't do is tune it through the mail. You made enough changes where it either needs to be tuned on a dyno or in the boat. The only way to tune through the mail is if you get a data logging software (like Rinda) ,along with a wide band, and tune from the data you collect. It's still possible to take several tries at it. You take a chance of damaging the engine again as you are collecting data. It also depends on the data you collect. The tune will only be as good as the data. For these reasons, I won't do it through the mail. I either have to have the engine or be with it in the boat.
Let me know if I can help.
Eddie
Let me know if I can help.
Eddie
#22
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MMMMM.... Max rpm with original 310HP engine and 22P props was 4300rpm.... same as new engine with 24P props and about 5 more MPH.
I believe this is within the specs outlined for this engine from mercruiser........................................ .................................................. .................................................. ....................... This boat is a cruiser, not a performance boat so top end really is of no concern. 51MPH is plenty for this boat and top end is not really a concern as this engine was built for cruising at 31MPH @ 2900rpm @ 11GPH............................................. ........................
A 21" prop would have me turning 3500RPM at a 30MPH cruise and that is not where I need to be.... also fuel flow would be much higher...... is that smart?
I am looking for some input here from experienced engine builders to see if anybody else has encountered a similar problem. I have built many performance, automotive engines, carbed, and fuel injected as well and I have an LM-1 that I can install to see exactly if I am running rich or lean. I am of the understanding that the factory engines were set up rather rich and my mods, in my opinion, were not enough to induce detonation to the point it would hammer the rod bearings flat...... This engine ran perfectly with no indication at all of detonation or any other abnormality.... sucks to be me..... TBF
I believe this is within the specs outlined for this engine from mercruiser........................................ .................................................. .................................................. ....................... This boat is a cruiser, not a performance boat so top end really is of no concern. 51MPH is plenty for this boat and top end is not really a concern as this engine was built for cruising at 31MPH @ 2900rpm @ 11GPH............................................. ........................
A 21" prop would have me turning 3500RPM at a 30MPH cruise and that is not where I need to be.... also fuel flow would be much higher...... is that smart?
I am looking for some input here from experienced engine builders to see if anybody else has encountered a similar problem. I have built many performance, automotive engines, carbed, and fuel injected as well and I have an LM-1 that I can install to see exactly if I am running rich or lean. I am of the understanding that the factory engines were set up rather rich and my mods, in my opinion, were not enough to induce detonation to the point it would hammer the rod bearings flat...... This engine ran perfectly with no indication at all of detonation or any other abnormality.... sucks to be me..... TBF
Last edited by jeffswav; 02-22-2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason: I was a little rude,
#23
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My first guess would be you had a tight bearing or two. Did you have oil temp gages? If not you should add them. The LM1 would be a very good idea. You'll need to set up a spot in the exhaust for it while you have it apart. Going from memory, the 365hp mag engine which is what your cam is for, had a recommended rpm range of 44-4800rpm. So 4300rpm would not be that far off and would not cause a rod bearing to fail. It is good practice though to alway prop for being able to hit the high end of the recommended range at wot. Cruiser or not, makes no difference.
#24
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Vortech heads are detonation prone. They have smaller chambers which results in a higher compression ratio and they have a sharp point in the combution chamber between the valves. If it were my engine, I'd use a die grinder and lay that point back a bit. Just enough to smooth it into a nice rounded shape. Can't remove it completely, it's required to create mixture swirl in the chamber. Good luck.
#25
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Yes, I am intimately aware of the design of the vortec heads...... I did indeed remove the sharp edges and did some very minor deshrouding as the 2.19 intake is larger than stock. Also, there is a cast in "wing" just beneath the intake valve that must be for swirl so I don't think my porting and installation of the larger valves was worth that much power. I figure my C/R was right at 9-1 and the flat top pistons were zero decked. Using a .045" thick head gasket, I have good quench and resistance to detonation. These are small port heads and probably would run out of breath at anything much more than 4,500RPM. The plan here was to build the motor for torque and it has it in spades.
Obviously this combo failed so when it gets rebuilt, It will get tuned and A/F ratio and egt will all be monitored so as to avoid another failure. I will contact some of the previous posters that offered help and figure out a game plan and the best way to get this combo tuned. I will post back when I pull the pan and see how bad the carnage is........ TBF
Obviously this combo failed so when it gets rebuilt, It will get tuned and A/F ratio and egt will all be monitored so as to avoid another failure. I will contact some of the previous posters that offered help and figure out a game plan and the best way to get this combo tuned. I will post back when I pull the pan and see how bad the carnage is........ TBF
#26
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I don't think the heads had anything to do with what happened..I think your engine screwed up...sounds like spun a rod bearing..if so what you did have nothing to do with that unless it was running so rich with fuel diluted the oil and killed a bearing....clearance, crank, something was wrong there ! or unless you hooked up oil cooler lines reversed and killed it that way...
#27
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I don't think the heads had anything to do with what happened..I think your engine screwed up...sounds like spun a rod bearing..if so what you did have nothing to do with that unless it was running so rich with fuel diluted the oil and killed a bearing....clearance, crank, something was wrong there ! or unless you hooked up oil cooler lines reversed and killed it that way...
#28
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I don't think the heads had anything to do with what happened..I think your engine screwed up...sounds like spun a rod bearing..if so what you did have nothing to do with that unless it was running so rich with fuel diluted the oil and killed a bearing....clearance, crank, something was wrong there ! or unless you hooked up oil cooler lines reversed and killed it that way...
Either way I think he is on the right track to getting her straightened out
#29
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Yes...... My seat of the pants guage tells me detonation was the problem and I bet running lean was the issue. I bet the top half of the rod bearings are hammered flat so I might get lucky and change them out if there is no debris in the pan. Now comes the question of how to reflash the 2000 L-29 engine ECU? My Harley has a power commander I just installed and there are a ton of maps available for all different combos..... It works like a charm! I would think I am not too far away from the stock 454 mag tune but I need to put this thing on a dyno and make sure I don't run lean again...........
FWIW, I did check the fuel and not a drop of water or contamination. Fuel was 89 octane no ethanol. Old fuel was drained and filled to top with fresh gas so no issues there. Timing was right at spec per my installer but i will double check to see how much initial there is now. I have not heard about the oil cooler issues but I am using the stock unit and it was cleaned and looks to be of sufficient size to provide good flow with no restrictions? I always had good oil pressure and no overheating issues.............................
The only way to be sure this is tuned correctly is using a dyno or on the boat with a laptop or some kind of scantool. I will research this and make damn sure all parameters are perfect. It will probably run better and fster as well! Thanks for the help and steering this newcomer in the right direction..
TBF
FWIW, I did check the fuel and not a drop of water or contamination. Fuel was 89 octane no ethanol. Old fuel was drained and filled to top with fresh gas so no issues there. Timing was right at spec per my installer but i will double check to see how much initial there is now. I have not heard about the oil cooler issues but I am using the stock unit and it was cleaned and looks to be of sufficient size to provide good flow with no restrictions? I always had good oil pressure and no overheating issues.............................
The only way to be sure this is tuned correctly is using a dyno or on the boat with a laptop or some kind of scantool. I will research this and make damn sure all parameters are perfect. It will probably run better and fster as well! Thanks for the help and steering this newcomer in the right direction..
TBF
#30
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Yes...... My seat of the pants guage tells me detonation was the problem and I bet running lean was the issue. I bet the top half of the rod bearings are hammered flat so I might get lucky and change them out if there is no debris in the pan. Now comes the question of how to reflash the 2000 L-29 engine ECU? My Harley has a power commander I just installed and there are a ton of maps available for all different combos..... It works like a charm! I would think I am not too far away from the stock 454 mag tune but I need to put this thing on a dyno and make sure I don't run lean again...........
FWIW, I did check the fuel and not a drop of water or contamination. Fuel was 89 octane no ethanol. Old fuel was drained and filled to top with fresh gas so no issues there. Timing was right at spec per my installer but i will double check to see how much initial there is now. I have not heard about the oil cooler issues but I am using the stock unit and it was cleaned and looks to be of sufficient size to provide good flow with no restrictions? I always had good oil pressure and no overheating issues.............................
The only way to be sure this is tuned correctly is using a dyno or on the boat with a laptop or some kind of scantool. I will research this and make damn sure all parameters are perfect. It will probably run better and fster as well! Thanks for the help and steering this newcomer in the right direction..
TBF
FWIW, I did check the fuel and not a drop of water or contamination. Fuel was 89 octane no ethanol. Old fuel was drained and filled to top with fresh gas so no issues there. Timing was right at spec per my installer but i will double check to see how much initial there is now. I have not heard about the oil cooler issues but I am using the stock unit and it was cleaned and looks to be of sufficient size to provide good flow with no restrictions? I always had good oil pressure and no overheating issues.............................
The only way to be sure this is tuned correctly is using a dyno or on the boat with a laptop or some kind of scantool. I will research this and make damn sure all parameters are perfect. It will probably run better and fster as well! Thanks for the help and steering this newcomer in the right direction..
TBF
The vortec heads like a little less timing, from what you are used to. I have heard in the range of 32 deg total.
I once ran some E10 fuel through a fresh rebuild and took out my rod berrings. Thats why I through that out there, it may not apply to you.
I have a aftermarket Holley MPI system with wideband O2. I can program the PCM on the fly with a laptop. If you could have a bung welded in your exhaust that would be a good idea. I have the EMI exhaust and I have a bung welded in the risers.
There are a lot of guys on here that can help you with the Merc PCM. I would take there advise on the programing.
Let us know what you find with the engine.