Ateco 500efi upgrade
04-17-2011, 03:35 PM
#31
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Just a out of couriosity, and thread stealing a bit. Is there an economical way to get more Hp out of a 525 with out a major rework? My 525 dinoed in at 580, 581 and 579. this is "adjusted" data due to actual dino conditions, at 5400. Is there a way to get let's say 600 at 5400 with out going nuts?
04-17-2011, 06:26 PM
#32
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Matt whose throttlebody and flame arrestor did you use? I have the AZ MARINE mono blade and a vortec flame arrestor that I had to make fit.
My engine was dynoed with the 58mm 2 port throttle body from AZ.
04-18-2011, 09:49 AM
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I was just dynoing a customers engine. It is a 525 that was rebuilt with 10:1 compression, an AZM cam with a little more duration and 112 LSA, upgraded fuel system and Mefi 4B ECM. I was quite surprised to see it make 625 HP at 5500 RPM. I cannot find any details on headwork. The intake and TB appear stock. That's all I know about the build, I was just fine tuning it on the dyno for him.
04-18-2011, 09:51 AM
#37
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The main thing people need to grasp with the 500 and 525 that the limiting factor to the HP of these engines is the manifold itself, like cookin did if you port match everything you may get a little more, but take off the manifold and put on a single plane and throttle body spin it to 6000 and yes you will make HP. the 500/525 intake plenums like old school TPI are designed for torque. they max out at about 5600 rpm..they make a great and reliable pkg though properly done.
04-18-2011, 11:23 AM
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Hi Bobl: Yes I believe those numbers are accurate with that type of compression and a bigger cam on the dyno. We saw similar numbers in our development and testing on the HP525efi.
Not sure if everyone will want that octane requirement and the old reversion monster tends to rear its head with the stock CMI exhaust with a bigger cam (more duration).
This is however where a HP525efi upgrade will hit the WALL for HP when it does not have serious intake manifold upgrades like our new plenum piece and some major internal porting work.
As for that dyno run posted for Cookin's engine it seems reasonable and possible they can hit that number with the described rework. The numbers show peak torque at about 3900 rpms and peak power at 5200 rpms, so the camshaft does not appear to be a large duration unit and is working well for a 600HP output PROVIDED the dyno run was with all accessories, belts, pumps etc., on and running and the dyno test was with a wet exhaust test as if it was a dry header test the actual wet or in boat power levels will fall to about 575-580HP levels.
Also if the passenger side A/F number were accurate, the passenger side of that engine is destined to grenade under a boat load! Hope it was just a dyno measurement problem and not the engines actual A/F ratio.
I think most HP500efi and HP525efi owners are trying to establish what kind of horsepower increase they can see on their engines with reasonable camshaft, head mods, injectors and intake mods and not go into their blocks, pistons, cubic inch size and such. The answer seems to be about 550HP for HP500efis, with the stock iron heads, and 600HP for HP500efi's and HP525efis with aluminum heads and reasonable camshaft sizes, mono-blade throttle bodies, good 4 tube headers and ECM tunes. These required mods are still not cheap and easy as many will see and for HP500efi owners, the added power increase (100-150HP) comes at a better HP per dollar ratio than the HP525efi (50-60HP)
If one wants to take these engines to the 675-690 HP level and stay with 9.0 to 1 compression for 89-91 octane fuel, you have got to increase the cubic inches, do serious mods to the stock heads or use aftermarket expensive heads, make serious intake manifold changes and use better camshaft profiles to get there.
Our $14,600 price tag for the HP525efi to HP675efi package is a good "Dipstick" for what an engine owner will need to spend to get into these power numbers with a reliable, non-drive busting, turnkey engine package.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Not sure if everyone will want that octane requirement and the old reversion monster tends to rear its head with the stock CMI exhaust with a bigger cam (more duration).
This is however where a HP525efi upgrade will hit the WALL for HP when it does not have serious intake manifold upgrades like our new plenum piece and some major internal porting work.
As for that dyno run posted for Cookin's engine it seems reasonable and possible they can hit that number with the described rework. The numbers show peak torque at about 3900 rpms and peak power at 5200 rpms, so the camshaft does not appear to be a large duration unit and is working well for a 600HP output PROVIDED the dyno run was with all accessories, belts, pumps etc., on and running and the dyno test was with a wet exhaust test as if it was a dry header test the actual wet or in boat power levels will fall to about 575-580HP levels.
Also if the passenger side A/F number were accurate, the passenger side of that engine is destined to grenade under a boat load! Hope it was just a dyno measurement problem and not the engines actual A/F ratio.
I think most HP500efi and HP525efi owners are trying to establish what kind of horsepower increase they can see on their engines with reasonable camshaft, head mods, injectors and intake mods and not go into their blocks, pistons, cubic inch size and such. The answer seems to be about 550HP for HP500efis, with the stock iron heads, and 600HP for HP500efi's and HP525efis with aluminum heads and reasonable camshaft sizes, mono-blade throttle bodies, good 4 tube headers and ECM tunes. These required mods are still not cheap and easy as many will see and for HP500efi owners, the added power increase (100-150HP) comes at a better HP per dollar ratio than the HP525efi (50-60HP)
If one wants to take these engines to the 675-690 HP level and stay with 9.0 to 1 compression for 89-91 octane fuel, you have got to increase the cubic inches, do serious mods to the stock heads or use aftermarket expensive heads, make serious intake manifold changes and use better camshaft profiles to get there.
Our $14,600 price tag for the HP525efi to HP675efi package is a good "Dipstick" for what an engine owner will need to spend to get into these power numbers with a reliable, non-drive busting, turnkey engine package.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
04-18-2011, 11:30 AM
#39
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Hi Bobl: Yes I believe those numbers are accurate with that type of compression and a bigger cam on the dyno. We saw similar numbers in our development and testing on the HP525efi.
Not sure if everyone will want that octane requirement and the old reversion monster tends to rear its head with the stock CMI exhaust with a bigger cam (more duration).
This is however where a HP525efi upgrade will hit the WALL for HP when it does not have serious intake manifold upgrades like our new plenum piece and some major internal porting work.
As for that dyno run posted for Cookin's engine it seems reasonable and possible they can hit that number with the described rework. The numbers show peak torque at about 3900 rpms and peak power at 5200 rpms, so the camshaft does not appear to be a large duration unit and is working well for a 600HP output PROVIDED the dyno run was with all accessories, belts, pumps etc., on and running and the dyno test was with a wet exhaust test as if it was a dry header test the actual wet or in boat power levels will fall to about 575-580HP levels.
Also if the passenger side A/F number were accurate, the passenger side of that engine is destined to grenade under a boat load! Hope it was just a dyno measurement problem and not the engines actual A/F ratio.
I think most HP500efi and HP525efi owners are trying to establish what kind of horsepower increase they can see on their engines with reasonable camshaft, head mods, injectors and intake mods and not go into their blocks, pistons, cubic inch size and such. The answer seems to be about 550HP for HP500efis, with the stock iron heads, and 600HP for HP500efi's and HP525efis with aluminum heads and reasonable camshaft sizes, mono-blade throttle bodies, good 4 tube headers and ECM tunes. These required mods are still not cheap and easy as many will see and for HP500efi owners, the added power increase (100-150HP) comes at a better HP per dollar ratio than the HP525efi (50-60HP)
If one wants to take these engines to the 675-690 HP level and stay with 9.0 to 1 compression for 89-91 octane fuel, you have got to increase the cubic inches, do serious mods to the stock heads or use aftermarket expensive heads, make serious intake manifold changes and use better camshaft profiles to get there.
Our $14,600 price tag for the HP525efi to HP675efi package is a good "Dipstick" for what an engine owner will need to spend to get into these power numbers with a reliable, non-drive busting, turnkey engine package.Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Not sure if everyone will want that octane requirement and the old reversion monster tends to rear its head with the stock CMI exhaust with a bigger cam (more duration).
This is however where a HP525efi upgrade will hit the WALL for HP when it does not have serious intake manifold upgrades like our new plenum piece and some major internal porting work.
As for that dyno run posted for Cookin's engine it seems reasonable and possible they can hit that number with the described rework. The numbers show peak torque at about 3900 rpms and peak power at 5200 rpms, so the camshaft does not appear to be a large duration unit and is working well for a 600HP output PROVIDED the dyno run was with all accessories, belts, pumps etc., on and running and the dyno test was with a wet exhaust test as if it was a dry header test the actual wet or in boat power levels will fall to about 575-580HP levels.
Also if the passenger side A/F number were accurate, the passenger side of that engine is destined to grenade under a boat load! Hope it was just a dyno measurement problem and not the engines actual A/F ratio.
I think most HP500efi and HP525efi owners are trying to establish what kind of horsepower increase they can see on their engines with reasonable camshaft, head mods, injectors and intake mods and not go into their blocks, pistons, cubic inch size and such. The answer seems to be about 550HP for HP500efis, with the stock iron heads, and 600HP for HP500efi's and HP525efis with aluminum heads and reasonable camshaft sizes, mono-blade throttle bodies, good 4 tube headers and ECM tunes. These required mods are still not cheap and easy as many will see and for HP500efi owners, the added power increase (100-150HP) comes at a better HP per dollar ratio than the HP525efi (50-60HP)
If one wants to take these engines to the 675-690 HP level and stay with 9.0 to 1 compression for 89-91 octane fuel, you have got to increase the cubic inches, do serious mods to the stock heads or use aftermarket expensive heads, make serious intake manifold changes and use better camshaft profiles to get there.
Our $14,600 price tag for the HP525efi to HP675efi package is a good "Dipstick" for what an engine owner will need to spend to get into these power numbers with a reliable, non-drive busting, turnkey engine package.Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
04-18-2011, 11:50 AM
#40
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How to get to whats Real??
As my hopeful helpful additional post on this subject I am going to make a request (plea) here.
Please all engine owners, builders, etc., lets make sure when you talk about, run and post dyno outcomes here on OSO that you make sure the tests are done at a minimum with the engine in the exact trim and state it will go into the boat with!
I realize that just a few of us can run the tests with wet exhaust systems like Bobl and some others.
When dyno tests are run and posted where the engine is in a stripped down accessory state, dry long tube dyno headers versus stock manifolds or shorty headers or aftermarket exhaust manifolds the engine will have in the boat the readers perception and indeed the actual engine owners realization of what he will end up with in the boat under real world conditions is usually very distorted and really MISLEADING!
Remember what most engine manufacturers like Mercury and Mercury Racing provide is engine power and torque numbers based on this acurrate type of actual engine configuration and use testing.
A level playing field in testing and reporting will provide the best to all readers and performance boaters who need accurate numbers to make their financial upgrade decisions on!
I know a call for honesty and transparency in these dyno test numbers in the marine performance industry is a stretch! ,but its about time we all got on the SAME PAGE!
For the benefit of OSO'ers who need accurate information on which to base spending time and money, would those who want to sit on OSO and *****hit, brag, boast, entertain, distort, bench race and mislead for new business with some reporting, please exit OSO and go to another Offshore or boat forum where honesty and transparency are a four letter words and not ethically supported!!!
Not in any way inferring anybody on this post has done this, just want to get everyone thinking about the ways to get accuracy and report same before sharing the results and outcomes with other OSO readers.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Please all engine owners, builders, etc., lets make sure when you talk about, run and post dyno outcomes here on OSO that you make sure the tests are done at a minimum with the engine in the exact trim and state it will go into the boat with!
I realize that just a few of us can run the tests with wet exhaust systems like Bobl and some others.
When dyno tests are run and posted where the engine is in a stripped down accessory state, dry long tube dyno headers versus stock manifolds or shorty headers or aftermarket exhaust manifolds the engine will have in the boat the readers perception and indeed the actual engine owners realization of what he will end up with in the boat under real world conditions is usually very distorted and really MISLEADING!
Remember what most engine manufacturers like Mercury and Mercury Racing provide is engine power and torque numbers based on this acurrate type of actual engine configuration and use testing.
A level playing field in testing and reporting will provide the best to all readers and performance boaters who need accurate numbers to make their financial upgrade decisions on!
I know a call for honesty and transparency in these dyno test numbers in the marine performance industry is a stretch! ,but its about time we all got on the SAME PAGE!
For the benefit of OSO'ers who need accurate information on which to base spending time and money, would those who want to sit on OSO and *****hit, brag, boast, entertain, distort, bench race and mislead for new business with some reporting, please exit OSO and go to another Offshore or boat forum where honesty and transparency are a four letter words and not ethically supported!!!
Not in any way inferring anybody on this post has done this, just want to get everyone thinking about the ways to get accuracy and report same before sharing the results and outcomes with other OSO readers.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
