And if Mr. Orlandi could chime in and give us the details of the dyno session and the equipment he uses------please?

You should have stuck w/ the peanuts :grinser010: Just Joking


It didn't make any more power above 5k? What exhaust? Rev limiter?

Much agreed!!!

Didn't want to spin above 5k, stock bottom end with ARP bolts. Made 407hp with Orlandi's dyno headers so it makes less in the boat. I basically made a Magnum motor, but with HD parts in it. Everything is ARP, big one piece pushrods, roller rockers, good oil pump and pan, stainless and inconel valves. Just wanted a motor with a little more HP than stock that can take some punishment.

Brian had to re-jet the carb because it was running lean with the stock jets in the Edelbrock marine 750. His first pull only made 374HP then he put in the biggest jets that Edelbrock makes and did a valve adjustment and it made 407HP safely.

The 560 HP 236 headed engine sported 9.6 comp with a 108 lobe separation, probably not the best combination in a boat, but I couldnt see a problem with my 9.1 compression 112 lobe seperation 467 that can make as much as 530 HP with dry headers, why wouldnt that work with inconnel valves and the correct head gaskets, please be specific.

What is the RPM range of the cam? Dry headers are pretty much a no go for most of us, dry to the tip is loud. Full dry is asking for serious trouble, so with that said your cam is going to have to work with a wet exhaust. Your engine is putting out 1.19 hp per cubic inch with really poor heads. I'm running IMO the best 454 head which is the AFR 265 Ovals, 9.9:1 compression and a custom cam, I'm also making 1.19 hp per c.i.. I have better heads, higher compression and a cam from one of the best cam guys in the marine world. I just don't see how you can make the same power per cubic inch. Dynos can vary a lot, unless both engines are dynoed on the same unit we're comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.

Can you elaborate on the type of dyno your engine was tested on. Wet headers would for sure hurt HP on my engine. I believe my cam would work with a wet header, but it would not make 530 with a wet header. Operating range 0-5800 RPM, with insane throttle response.

I’m not seeing a reason why that cam wouldn’t work w/ 112LC. If you read the 496 Dyno /myth busting article http://www.fullthrottlemarine.com/ HP loss would be minimum w/ a good wet exhaust system. The article says there is no HP improvement (“Next we removed the boat exhaust and routed it straight. No change”) over the Dana Marines. The article goes on to say the test engine lost 3hp to the Dana’s with Lightning headers.

I talked to your engine builder today about his dyno setup. Dave told me he dynos the engines as they are run in the boat, water through the headers and all, so this is where the power difference would be, I also asked him about his correction factor (SAE or STP) but never really got an answer to that question. So bottom line is, if I were to test your engine how I test mine you would be up a signifigant amout of HP, hope this makes sense.

You'd have to understand exhaust tuning...not just 'restriction.'

As a super quick fyi: exhaust tuning (runner size, length and collector size and length) can help draw more intake charge. How's this ? During valve overlap. Most stock camshafts, including the 496, don't offer enough overlap for exhaust tuning to make big differences.

You'd have to understand exhaust tuning...not just 'restriction.'
SB
Hmm, maybe you do know a thing or two about engine design...

I told you SAE.

Congratulations they are some good numbers and good luck on the Peanut port engine project.

Try this test 5800 for 20 minutes,now your in the boating world.

I will stick with Dart,AFR and Jesel.

Thanks
Dave

Guess I understand enough to get myself in trouble.:lolhit:

SB, If I understand you correctly your saying the overlap on the 496 cam in the article isn’t big enough to take advantage of a tuned exhaust? @ what overlap do you think a cam would benefit from a tuned exhaust… What is an example of a tuned exhaust? Vortec Pro says it would be significant on his 530hp motor? Neither the Dana Marines or the Lightning Headers are a cheap upgrade, how much HP loss are we talking about? The article says the Danas gain 23hp or 15.2hp w/ the turbulators removed over the stock exhaust system. Are we talking about another 15-20hp gain with a tuned header over a good wet exhaust?

Thank you for that invitation, however, it does not appear there is anything of any substance to comment on here.
“. Air speed is the key here.”
Ok, good point. I don’t see any quantitative or qualitative data to support any comparative analysis here. No MCSA, localized velocity profiles, runner length, pitot data, etc. Absent data (of any kind) it would appear to be a rhetorical question.

Bob

SAE, well then theres another 4-5 percent on top of the wet exhaust. I use Dart and Jessel products when setting records and winning championships in heads up NA drag racing, with smooth idle 530 HP 454s I use peanut ports.

Well Bob, I wouldnt have any hesitation running one of my 454s at a 5000 RPM limit against one of yours at the same compression and cam profile, but this is the internet, I have yet to see anyone step up, but please feel free to do so. Whats wrong with a good old fashion dyno shoot out?

Um, I don't remember Bob saying anything about a "mine is bigger than yours". Plus what would be the point of using the same compression and cam profiles? That would take all the knowledge and skill out of it. I would think a better comment would have been "it has to run on 87 octane and live at WTO for 20 minutes on the dyno and idle with full wet exhaust @ 600 rpms for 20 minutes!" To me that would make more sense!

Could you post those dyno sheets on your engine? I would like to see whats going on there. Thanks. Anything goes would be more than fine with me also.

I'm in. Pick a dyno. Why limit it to 5000rpm?

I think most people out there can relate to a NA 454 production based engine. What do you think? How about my dyno.

Sure, it's a little on the small side for a performance boat engine but ok. Why do you need to limit your dyno shoot out to 5000rpm. Any well built 454 with factory internals will turn 6500 rpm reliably with very little effort. Is it because your peanut heads fall on there face after 5k? I guess you're pretty proud of yourself for making decent power with peanut heads, well obviously you are because you post on almost every forum on the internet, but really who cares? How much work goes into those heads vs. bolting on a set of AFR 265's? I'm sure it took considerable skill to get that combo to work, but how is it relevant to the average performance boater? Are you selling these heads cheap?
Anyway, back to your dyno challenge where you said nobody ever steps up.. I'm in. You wanna run 454's? No problem, I'll put out of the box untouched AFR's against your magic peanuts any day and stomp them. No magic there, it's been done many times. Just pick a dyno other then yours.

Damn, I'm lovin this a DYNO SHOWDOWN!!!!:evilb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1FnS...eature=related

5000 RPM was mentioned in this thread, theres no way a 236 head will run with a 265 AFR, and I never said it would. I think Westec would work just fine for a dyno facility. I think at this point you should come up with some guide lines, I will be contacting you this morning. By the way, my peanuts ports peak @ 5800 RPMs with a 228 @ .050 hyd flattappets, not that it matters. 6500 or more RPM limit will be fine with me, thats up to you. To answer your question: I just tried to point out what Ive done with 236 heads, I think they could work fine on a 5000 RPM 454 boat.

Yea, and it looks like it might happen, now if we can just get Madera involved in designing the cam over there on the other side, I think this could be very informative for the boating world. A real dyno shoot out that cuts through the:bsflag:

Personally I would like to see you use Dave's dyno or similar that can better recreate the true envirornment of a marine engine! Besides that, Westech's dyno runs always read much higher than anyone else dyno. Granted if both engines are dynoed on the same dyno big deal. The problem comes when other people try and recreate a particular engine and can't hit the numbers posted by westech's dream-o-meter! IMO being able to run with wet exhaust or at least dry to the tip is where skill and knowledge comes to play as camshaft reversion is a real killer in the marine world! Otherwise any old car engine would work.

Both engines would be tested on the same dyno, I would disagree on Westecs numbers being wrong, infact I think we could bring in a dyno expert to calibrate the dyno before the tests.

Here's the guidelines: 454, 89 octane, Wot for 20mins, idle @700rpm, full marine trim running all accessories and wet exhaust. We can even use the same exh. manifolds. SM or Imco would work fine for this application. Is that what you had in mind?

:food-smiley-007:

454 dyno showdowns.....Awesome!!!!!

Right on, lets the games begin.

This may be a great winter on the forums afterall.:food-smiley-007:

If I am correct the dyno expert you have would be Harold Bettes. Not only is Harold an excellent choice, it provides us with an opportunity to complete the task with a minimal amount of logistical hardship for all involved.
From Nov 28-30, 2011 Harold will be The Master of Ceremonies for the Advanced Engineering Technology Conference, which precedes PRI, in Orlando. I will be attending both AETC and PRI and I have confirmed Alex Haxby, and Tony Mamo from AFR will be arriving for PRI (12/1-3). With everyone involved converging upon Orlando for these events, what better opportunity to crate up both engines, ship them to Florida (at a minimal expense to all compared to transcontinental flights) and dyno them both right in Orlando. We can arrange for dyno time in advance, possibly with Mike Laws who will be hosting the carb Shootout test, or at the Autoshop (former Engine Masters Winner) facility in Orlando. I believe it would be appropriate to provide Harold with appearance funds, with any balance to be refunded to the participants upon payment of dyno facility, fuel expenses etc.
Each person I have spoken to has confirmed for this arrangement. The only details left would be to refine the conditions you set earlier in this thread.
Bob

:bsflag: he must have used the dyno at Dereberry Performance Marine.

We can hammer out the fine details but, since this is a performance boating website the only thing set in stone is WOT for at least 20mins on 89 octane, just like in a boat. If you can't do that then go ask for a shootout on an automotive foum.. Thanks, Alex.

I'll donate my labor to both teams for the day(s) of this dyno challenge.

Let me know when and where and I'll fly in to help.

:bsflag: Dude go back to performance boats where all your buddies are , you say you know little about boats but you post all the time on PB so now you show up here and of course you mess is always better then anyone else's and you make more power then anyone else. Funny thing as many pokerruns as i have been on i have never seen one motor you did at any of them.

Is your motor sitting in your living room? If so, I like it!

no that is my garage ,and i build my own

Ok, I was going to say you must have one loving wife!

Really, do you think making 560 HP with a 236 head is something extra ordinary? I dont.