Help!! Engine Demon's!
 

First a little background:
1986 26' Scarab Excel
Carbed 454 with Alpha
Last season apparently water got into the engine through exhaust, boat ran but rough, mechanic redid heads, exhaust manifolds and risers, valvetrain and reassembled.
Ran well for 30-40 hours, with the exception of inconsistent idle, winterized and stored.
Now: start it up 3 weeks ago after fluid and filter changes, ran well, started 2-3 times after this with inconsistent idle, but no other problems, found weak throttle return spring, replaced spring to get idle consistent saw oil was a touch high so removed less then a quart, oil doesnt look new, but not milky, just slightly cloudy brown.
Fired up yesterday, ran rough upped idle but had to apply throttle to get running. once running we got a loud squeak like a belt but more prominent. still running rough and now sounds like a loud tap or quiet knock. We also got some smoke out of the flame arrester. What could've happened?
The exhaust shoots plenty of water, seems to smell a little rich, and blows a little white smoke, but seems to have done that always.
Any ideas?
Where to start?
I was thinking of pulling plugs to see how they look, but this seems so sudden and unexplained, especially after just warm-ups on a hose...
Thanks in advance

I'll shoot first, and guess it's an intake manifold gasket leak. Could be sucking water in from cylinder 1 or 2 area on the head. Pull those two plugs...they are the easiest. :drink:

:drink: Thanks! Anybody else?

sounds to me like you spun a bearing. :( Have you noted your oil pressure? I wouldn't crank it again until I was sure.

Sounds more like a spun rod or crankshaft bearing, since it now has a knock.

Also cloudy brown oil might indicate you still have a water ingestion issue, which could also be the cause of a spun bearing...

My point exactly. :drink:

Sooooo... this motor needs to come out to inspect bearings?

If its turns out badly for you I have a fresh 454 complete ready to drop in, just put on your accesories.

Take your oil filter off and drain it into a clean pan and let it settle (look at the oil later for any unusual metalic residue). Get a hacksaw (or cut-off wheel on a die grinder, or band saw) and cut the top of the filter off. Pull the filter material out and seperate the pleats. If you see copper...or basically any "flaked" material...you motor is in trouble sir. :drink:

I remember many years ago I had a 70 ss chevelle with a 396and I was pushing it pretty hard when I heard a loud squealing noise "as you did". When I came to a stop ""idle" the oil light was blinking and had a deep knock, I goosed the motor and the oil light went off and knocked increased with RPM. I had it towed home :( pulled the motor and tore it down and # 3 bearing had spun out and destroyed the crank and contaminated the motor with bearing debri...
Sorry to say but sounds like you have no choice but to pull the motor and do a tear, rebuild or replace motor, goodluck!

good tip, I will start with that, also have a real mechanic coming down to listen to her Friday, sux cause my buddy had the top end redone last year for decent coin $$

we didn't even hit 1500 rpm on this one...

Let us know what you find in the oil and filter. Be sure to save the oil to show your mechanic. :drink:


Check out this link sir. http://www.stockcarracing.com/techar...nspection.html

okay so we pulled oil filter, cut open (with a hacksaw, as we had no choice) no metal shavings besides what we created, however is was very milky, but the oil on the dipstick still looks decent. I'm guessing water intrusion, maybe intake manifold gasket? could th noise be from compromised oil maybe?

Thats why I suggested the intake gasket sir. I'm glad you didnt find any "flakes" in the filter, as that indicates that whatever the problem is...you caught it early. It almost seems to me from your story, that the motor never ran great from the time you got it back from the mechanic. If he re-did the heads..he obviously had the intake off (gaskets), and if it was sucking in even a super slight amount of water, that may have been why it was running rough on that/those cylinders. Off course, I'm just guessing at this...but I'd pull it if it were mine. I'd definately be having a talk with the guy who put it back together..he may work something out with you. You still have a whole season ahead of you. Do it right sir. :drink:

Yes your suggestion is where I got that from, lol... So next is pull intake I guess.... It's a friends boat, and he is so disgusted and ready to quit, but I'm trying to save his season.
Thanks for all the input tinman, and everyone!

Sir...the "loud tap or quiet knock" is more what I'm worried about. What is/was your oil pressure at ? Please dont guess...its important. Make sure the tap or knock isnt an exhaust manifold leak. In my opinion...as it isnt that hard to pull the motor...I'd take it out, flip it over, and check all the bearings. With 2 guys, you could actually have an answer in a few hours....and PEACE OF MIND. Dont let your buddy get discouraged. This is how you learn, and he'll prolly be happy knowing he did the work himself. It's a nice feeling running down the lake/river knowing that YOU YOURSELF made the motor right. Good luck sir...there's alotta smart guys on this site here for ya. :drink:

Patient was killed by the tools not the surgery!
 

Hey just a little info here on cutting open oil filter. DON'T USE A HACKSAW OR CUTOFF SAW TO OPEN IT! Debris in the filter media is deposited on the outside pleats and any cutting with hacksaw or cutoff saw will deposit all kinds of good metal to look at in the pleats!
You will scare yourself to death easier if you use the saw open method and it will be very hard to differentiate between what metals what.
Yes they actually make filter cutting tools, see Summit or others, not to expensive, but a carefully punched hole followed by good sharp tin snips will do the trick up near the top of the filter base. Do this cutting base up and then pay attention also to whats in the bottom of the filter can. A good magnet is helpful for iron and steel particles, but not for bearing material.

Knocks are not good on fire-ups but sometimes they can just be from lifters and such. If they get louder under a load then that's not good and generally indicates an internal engine issue like bearing, piston pin, piston, etc.

Hope your engine is OK and this is just spring time first use flutter.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

The repetitive squeaking noise combined with the rough running, puff through the intake, and a water intrusion issue would make me think you have a stuck/sticking valve. Do a compression check.

If you wait a few minutes and start the engine again, does it run O.K. for a short while?

Tinman speaks the truth and you sound like your inclined so don't shoot from the hip. Don't start it again until you have come to an educated decision on the cause of the squeek, tap, pop, clang, bang, etc... Start with the easy stuff, pull plugs, remove valve covers, roll by hand, verify correct valve accuation, timing, etc... Should roll with fairly consistant ease throughout the complete revolution. Just MHO. Theres a wealth of knowlage on here, they should have you goin in no time. Good luck.

Well, he brought it to a mechanic, so far best compression was 90 out of eight cylinders, pulled valve covers, valvetrain is covered in rust, and bent pushrod(s), also loose rockers supposedly. sooooo waiting to hear on plan B.

Regarding the previous "top end work" were the original heads used or different ones installed? If the original heads were used were they pressure tested? The cooling system can corrode through the water jacket and give water issues like described. I had this happen on my 454 mag HO. My squeaking was broken rings on one piston where the water got on top and hydroed it.
A leakage test can determine if the compression loss is heads or rings.

Hopefully, it sounds like the problems are limited to the top end.

Ditto on the oil filter opening method, ie,definately use tin snips or other non fracturing, grinding or cutting tools as they will contaminate or skew the reading.

How you makin out 007?

Just remembered this thread, he ended up needing a new engine and went with a Jasper, we had some good offers from some board members here but he wanted a "warranty" engine just came in on Friday, so hopefully he'll get some use out of it, Thanks for all the responses.