Formula 272 SR1...lost steering while running hard
 

Ok, so I have been tuning a little and playing with props. I am pretty pleased. Getting up over 70mph now but.........what is happening?

While running wide open when it approaches 70 mph I lose control of the boat. Especially in chop! The steering will practically freeze. Sometimes not turning left, sometimes not turning at all.

Then it takes about 5 mins of idling and pulling on the wheel and it comes back. do I need hydraulic steering or is my PS pump quitting on me? Fluid is full. Air in it maybe?

Like no steering at all :eek: or no power assist?

just a guess but now that you have more revs, are you over speeding the pump and hydraulically stalling the pump by cavitating the vane ? try backing off to revs where it used to work an see if it still happens if not just change the pulley ratio a bit and slow it down. don't forget that those pumps weren't ever meant to turn a lot of revs

FRIG THAT!!!:eek: Don't mess around with this at all. Get a pro to look at this problem before you head back out. Running that hard and suddenly loosing control could be very bad...don't risk it....get it fixed and fast!!!

my guess would be the actuator at the transom...assuming not hyd steering....

Like I can not even turn the wheel! not hard to turn...I mean won't turn!

i am honestly only about 500 more rpm than when I started with this boat. It was running @ 4600 when I got it, some bolt ons and new props and I am at 5000-5100 with trim.

aerating the fluid, mine has a leak i cant seem to find and i can tell you no assist at 70 feels like the wheel is locked, try flushing the fluid and putting synthetic trans fluid in

understood... was just a thought and an easy test. i am always leery of things that work fine one minute then something unrelated changes and then it doesn't work anymore. the " law of unintended consequences" at work...

i would still go out to a safe area and see if its a rev defined problem... i can't see how it can be an actuator... it would have to be the shuttle exposing both ports to lock it solid...

and actually , lil red is correct... it feels locked but actually all the assist is gone...

I busted a line on mine a few weeks ago - had to cut the line and drive back with no assist. It wasn't too bad at cruising and lower speeds, but I definitely had to fight it wanting to pull in one direction when it was under load. It really wasn't that hard to steer at idle or low speeds, however. Based on the fact that you said it remains "locked" even when you come back down to idle, it is starting to sound like you may have an issue with the helm, steering cable, or steering actuator. You might try disconnecting the steering cable from the actuator the next time it happens to see if it frees up. If it is still stiff, you have just isolated your problem to the helm or steering cable.

That is an old boat - if it is the original cable and helm, you might want to consider replacing it, especially now that you are seeing speeds over 70.

Yeah....if this happens I bring it down to idle immediately. In neutral sitting still I can NOT move the wheel. Period. then after 5-10 mins of idle and pulling on it, it will free up and return to normal.

I put a new helm and cable in it this year. Must be the actuator. It does not leak a drop of fluid. Is it possible to have a reverse leak? Nothing out but pulling air in?

And also it is weird that up to upper 60's no prob. The best I have seen to date now is 70.8 mph and as soon as I get there I have issues. And again, it happens faster and is worse when running in a good chop!

i'm not sure your conclusion is correct. you think because when you immediatly power down it stays hard, therefore its a component issue as oppose to aereated fluid from cavitaion... but it would take some amount of time for the fluid to cool off and the air to come out of suspension and the fluid to become fluid again... exactly what that time you are sitting there waiting does... also... think about it... realistically how could a component unrelated to speed suddenly become speed sensitive ? all the steering knows is the revs its being spun at and the pressures that it makes... not how fast it goes. and a bad actuator would be bad at 60 as well as 70...

if you are saying in absolute terms that you can drive this boat for a 100 miles at 65 mph and everything is fine but the instant you get to that critical speed that the steering blows up... then that's revs related pump / pressure issue . i just can't see it being anything else... now if you want to say that its a bad pump related to presure at those revs... well who knows whats going on there... but i would still look at slowing the pump down... is it a stock pulley stack / pump deal or some aftermarket zoomy chrome thing...?

What your saying make total sense to me. It is a stock pulley system.

I had originally thought that air was the issue. I was just slightly confused as the system is full and has no leaks at all.

I guess wot in alot of chop could shake things up and leave an opening for the pump to grab some air.

This has just never happened to me in all of my years of boating and I have gone way faster with stock stering. That is why I was asking for help....

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts! I appreciate it!

Go full Hyd
 

I just installed a full hyd steering system on my 24 Python and the difference from stock is amazing. The boat was scary above 65. Now I can take my hands off the wheel at 60-80 and the boat goes strait as an arrow. Look for deals on this site. Total price for my MM set up was 1800. You can save some serious money if you are handy with a wrench.

Lee

As soon as you slow down pull the cap off and see if its all foamed up, maybe the ps cooler is clogged?

Regardless I would start looking for a hydraulic system especially if you plan to keep the boat running in the 70's

I think I will as the goal is to reach 80 when my cash flow frees up a bit....(paying for my wedding is hurting the wallet a bit!!!)

I hear ya there id have a nice fastec if most of my money wasn't in the wedding account!

if she really loves you , she'll understand.

I had something similar but not exactly the same happen to me, when I would run in chop/rough water my steering would randomly temporarily get real stiff/quit moving without EXTREME force on my 272 single engine Baja, I went to twin ram full hydraulic and it would STILL do it but not as bad. Mine didn't take 5 minutes though to come back, usually if I backed down it was fine instantly or within a few seconds , In my case it turned out to be a combination of things, bilge water splashing on my accessories belt and the brackets procharger had me relocate my accessories and belt with would flex a little , belt had to be tightened tighter than you would expect to not slip when it got any bilge water/slime on it and even then it would still do it but not as bad. The factory installed my bilge pump so high in bilge that you had to have 3- 4 plus inches of water before it would pump and even then it still had over 3 inches of water once it pumped down. I relocated the bilge pump and added a second one while I was at it and I keep my bilge dry and since then it never has happened to me again.
In your case the fact it takes 5 minutes to come back I think your fluid is foaming or something similar, I hope you figure it out, Smitty
I finally figured out my belts were getting wet in my case when I saw the voltage drop while it wouldn't steer as I have a common belt driving everything

My opinion:

Before you go the direction of all this add hydraulic steering stuff, you need to find out what is wrong with your current setup. Adding hydraulic to a broken setup is a serious recipe for disaster.

Once you have found and fixed the problem, then you should install full hydraulic.

And the guys that say to seek pro help are right.

HA HA HA HA HA That is a good one!!!! I had been saving for almost 5 yrs to buy a new boat. I was tired of late 80s early 90s "nice looking" boats that I have to work on every week.

What do I end up with.....A late 80s "nice looking boat" I work on every week and a $60,000 bill for a wedding!!!

And she says she loves me all the time!!! HA HA HA

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that when you install "full hydraulic steering" you eliminate the old helm, old cable, PS pump, Lines, Cooler, and actuator.

I thought that there would be a new helm which acts as the "pump" then only hydraulic lines to the rear and the external rams do all the work???????

60 grand for the wedding ? your judgement appears to have gotten stiff along with your steering and other more pivate parts...

You keep the pump.