Gen 4 max bore??
 

I have seen several opinions on this, with the consensus being sonic the sleeves. Some say they have several gen 5's at .100, and one thread that they had reached a bore of over 4.55. Is that possible with a 454 mag block? How do you get a .250 overbore? I call B.S. I could not find a thread with the gen 4. info that I could believe.
I am reworking a pair and they are already .60 over and may need a bit more. So in my ultimate wisdom, I figured I would pick up some JE or CP blower pistons and a pair of blowers and see what it would do. I also am considering solid lifters. What is a good rule of thumb for adjustment time? Or is it not worth it with a blower set-up?
Thanks in advance for the help

Maximum Cylinder Bore Diameter 4.310 in.

4.55 would have been a 502, not a 454.

Mines at 4.350" or .100" over. Run a forged Lunati 4.25" crank for 505"s. At least 10 years old and have never had an issue. Did have it sonic tested prior to boring. Pistons are availiable up to .125" though I personally have never known anyone to go that far. I was talking to an old timer about it at a machine shop one time and his reply was "damn, you could read a newspaper through those cylinder walls".LMAO
It's a MK lV

The general rule of thumb for a Mk IV 454 is .070 over, or 4.320. Again, as mentioned, have it sonic tested.
Don't bother with the solid. There is no reason for it these days. The hyd. roller stuff has come so far that you can run about any cam you can dream up and not have any problems. The solids are not worth the hassle imo.
Eddie

I have one engine at .070 over and one at .100 over. Supercharged. I am comfortable with this as I run closed cooling so there is no thickness loss over time like many engines see due to seawater.

I know racers that will go .125 over but thats a race car.

Eddie, Are you saying that you could run the hydraulic rollers on some solid cams nowadays? Cause I would really like to run hydraulic rollers but I do not want to swap out my cams.
Thanks

I think he's just saying that there's no reason to run solid state cams anymore, given that the new hydrolic roller stuff doesn't "float" and its even more reliable than solid stuff.

Bingo
 

Every question answered! Thats a first. I fell better about maybe taking it to 70 or 100 and being able to run the blowers if I have to. Thanks agian! Now for the cam selection. I will check back when I get those narrowed down. CUDOS guys.

Just a quick mention... If you're going to go to +.100 have it sonic tested first. Some castings are a little thicker than others.

I was trying to say, as WJD21 said, that the hyd stuff is very reliable. However, depending on your cams, you could possibly run a hyd. roller lifter on your solid cams. It depends on how aggressive they are, how much lift, how steep the ramp, etc. but it can be done.
Eddie

That is what I was trying to get at. This winter I was looking over some new hydraulic roller lifters (new Morels I think) and it seemed that the dampening travel was not what I have seen in the past or on other lifters. It seemed that it was only 0.060"-0.070" (don't quote me on these #'s) These also did not go into valve float at higher rpm's on the dyno like others I have seen. It seemed that these took up about as much lash when adjusted as my solids. This got me thinking about putting hydraulics on solid cams. Something that I did not want to be the guinea pig and try though.

How would I know if mine are to aggressive? 252/264 (290/300) .630"/.630" lift
I assume they are a little to hot.
As always, thanks for you input and time.

we run up to .125 over in some drag race engines, but fill the block in most of those...I would say .060 is about the limit in most cases on a gen VI 454, I do have 1 std bore 4 bolt main marine block that is std now for sale..Rob

Rookie,
Your .050 numbers aren't that big, so it doesn't sound out of the question. Do you happen to have or can get the .200 numbers. This will give me a really good idea of ramp profile. You can have 2 cams with the same .050 duration but with vastly different .200 duration numbers. The higher the .200 number, the more aggressive the ramp. This will tell how quickly the lifter will come up the ramp and give a good idea if it will loft the lifter.
The high rpm Morels can take up to about 200-210 on the seat and 550-575 pounds over the nose, so odds are they will work just fine with your cam.
Try to find the .200 numbers for your cam and we'll go from there.
Eddie

This is all I have found. It is an Ultradyne R32/33. Does this make any sense? My R32 #is 252 not 254 though.
Thanks,
Jason

Here is the plan so far. We cleaned the blocks and are due for a mugnflux to start. Assuming they are good we will take em to .100, as it is already at .06 and needs some clean up. Machinest will bore the holes to maximise the cylinder thickness to the outsides. Line bore, sonic test to verify thickness. He suggested diamond pistons, I am unsure but he says they perform well for him, and they are much faster on odd sizes. We are giving the 099 heads a full port and polish, Gold comp 1.7's, Isky springs and keepers, SS intake, Incnl ex., 3 angle valve seat, Fire (something) rings, h beam rods bored for bushings and floating pins, Cross drill the cranks, milidon pans with windage trays, and custom grind cams, hyd. roller lifters. HE ignition, balance and blueprint, and Top that off with some blowers YTBD.
Hope we can get it sorted this year yet!

Sounds good. What cranks are you going to use? The ole wallet's gonna be a little lighter after this project. Good luck with it.

I have never liked the idea of crossdrilling cranks... especially since you can get full groove main bearings that accomplish the same thing. I still prefer the 3/4 groove main bearings my self though.

Donations?
 

I have a pair of 10/10 steel forged cranks. My guy says the bottom end parts are good to 700 hp, and they will spin between 6200 and 6500 rpm's when he is done. Of all I bought these were perfect condition. Wallet will be a bit lighter, but after looking at so many used motors, I felt it better to cough it up and know what I have. I paid 2500.00 for 2 of everything, blocks cranks heads, intakes, roller rockers rod sets, and more tin than you can shake a stick at. Just have to build them. My builder says he can keep me in the 8k range, we will see. Dyno time is extra.

One crank is already done so I will match them accordingly, or it will drive me insane! OCD? Maybe!

What I'm looking for are the .200 lift duration numbers. The intake lobe is 168 and the exhaust is 177. That's not a super aggressive solid roller. I have run much more aggressive hydraulics. So, to answer your question, I don't see a problem with running a set of high rpm Morels with that cam.
Hope this helps. Sorry for the hijack.
Eddie

No problem Eddie.. They did the sonic today and .70 is the overbore. Not enough there to be comfortable with the .100 over. Not a big deal.

Not to high jack the thread but is 190 at .200 super aggressive.

Rookie,
It would be prudent to reconsider the use of a hydraulic roller lifter on this lobe combination as there are significant consequences in doing so. The Ultradyne R-32/R33 have a major intensity of 36º, and a_ .200” number of 168º/177º respectively. These are Harold’s original design, standard lash (.026’-.030”) solid roller profiles. Regardless of the fact they are slower ramp designs, this has no bearing on the ability to exploit the use of hydraulic roller tappets. In this case the lash ramp is ultimately what prohibits the use of hydraulic rollers on these lobes.
Hydraulic roller and TL solid roller lobes are designed with lash points of .004”-.006” (the measure of actual seat duration). A TL solid roller runs ~ .010” hot lash. When the rocker ratio is factored out that equates to .0058888”, or the equivalent of the hydraulic roller lobe. The UD solid roller lobes were designed with a wide lash ramp of .026’-.030”, or .0165” prior to lash. That is a take-up ramp nearly 3 times higher that of the HR profiles. That places the rated duration (seat duration) of these lobes @ .020”. It is this design feature that prohibits the use hydraulic roller lifters.

Exchanging hydraulic roller/solid roller lifters is not uncommon, on hydraulic roller or TIGHT lash solid roller lobe profiles only. The use of hydraulic rollers tappets on a wide lash roller results in huge increases in seat duration. The consequences negatively impact vacuum, idle quality and result in huge decreases in low/mid range torque. On the top end you would run out of lobe prior to reaching a RPM band that could begin to overcome the effects of the increases in seat duration.
Bob

Now it is getting out of hand and in the wallet. Two b&m 250 on the way and on the hunt for chillers. So this route only cost me a little more for the diamond pistons,low low comp, and a lot more for 2 sets callies rods, and valves, oh yea and rings, opps forgot the fuel pump,.... gaskets but those are cheap. Well at least it should be good on fuel...... not, still waiting for obama's oil reserve deal to lower the fuel costs.

In all seriousness, what do you guys think about quick fuel carbs?Has 4 750 Holleys and I am thinking that may be a bit much.
Boy I can't wait to get it out on Lake Superior in October with a big noreaster.. YEEEE HAAAAW
Also looking for a hook up for good deal on a winter coat or a nice beany.

Thanks for the information. I have relatively new Isky Red Zones so I guess I would not be changing them out soon. And at the cost of new high quality lifters I think I will run these as long as I can. I was just curious as to the options when I need to replace them. I guess when the time comes I will just swap out the cams and lifters all in one exchange.

kneeslider74, sorry for the high jack. Just to bring this somewhat on track one of my 454's is 0.070" over. I have been looking at BadCompany's blower for a few months and almost pulled the trigger on them. You got a great deal on them. If I got them I would have searched for a single Dominator adapter for each and then sold the 4 carbs to offset the cost.
For your blower needs these guys are great to work with and prices are very reasonable!
Good Luck
http://www.dmpeinc.com/superchargers/

Rook, I am thinking about the same thing, along with some chillers. I am looking into Quick Fuel as an option also. Not sure though. The guy that sold them was a great guy and no B/S at all. I talked to a guy out east last night, and he has a pair for sale also. PM me with your budget $'s or phone and I will pass it on if you would like. Maybe you can get them for less than I did. This will end up being a decent deal overall as long as I can spen a weekend or two in the apposles. Was swimming at Devils Island the other day and really want to do some camping out there. That link shows off some sick milling! If you herar of a set of doms for sale let me know.
Thanks