Water in the OIL!
 

I have read everything on this site about water in the oil. I have gone down every path or action giving within the threads. I still show water in the oil. HP500 mostly stock with GIl manifolds and tall tail pipes. Machine shop cant find anything wrong. I have tested everything multiple times. The last thing I did was fill the block with water and then 25psi pressure and let it sit. After a week I noticed water/oil mix seeping around the valve stems from the guides. The watery oil is on the valve stem. I'm not talking much, but there is some. Anyone had this issue? The exhaust ports where the water is seen are rusty. Thanks for the info.

Do you have a water pressure gauge? Anything over mid teens can force water past the intake gasket. I have found that single digit pressures is where I typically run.

fixx
 

did the machine shop put new valve guides in the heads? if they were installed with out the proper clearances they will leak water in the engine..some of the guides go through water passages..once the motor heats up the castings slightly expand and that is where the water may be coming from..try getting the engine hot then pull the valve covers and pressure test..or get a old set of valve covers and chop the tops off them and install them so you can see what is happening to the valve guides that are leaking..

c,
Is the oil / water mix running down the valve stems ?? If it is coming down the valve stem, then it is probably just running down from under the valve cover and has nothing to do with your problem. If the valve guide was leaking where it was pressed into the head, it would only be leaking water, not an oil and water mix.

Sounds like you have a way to pressurize the system. Pump it up to about 25 lbs and spray some soapy water, Fantastic, etc into the port around the exhaust valve. If the guide is leaking it should bubble. The water wont hurt it any worse than it already is. You might want to pull the valve covers off and check under there while you are at it.
From what I have seen in the past, a leaking exhaust valve usually does not get much, if any, water in the oil.

You might not have any choice but to pull the heads off. If your machine shop has a pressure tester that uses specialized plates for each engine, see if they will loan you the one for a big block. You can bolt it to the block and pressureise it and see if you can find any leaks.

By the way, the two sides of the block are seperate so you can pressure test one side at a time.

How about the intake maniflod, right under the thermostat housing is where they usually rot through. Take a screw driver or dull punch and see if you can find any soft spots. If the manifold is good, you wont hurt anything. If not . . . you will find your leak :)

Hope this helps,

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

I tested the ports with soapy water and no evidence of a leak. The exhaust ports are rusty almost all around. The motor is long blocked and has held 20psi for a week now with very little to none leakage of pressure. Under the valve covers there is no signs of water when the block is under pressure. No rust trails or anything that could be a smoking gun. I have had the heads pressure tested and they came back fine. I have pressure tested the exhaust several times and they show no leaks even under heated conditions. Every time I run the motor and pull the exhaust off I have water in multiple exhaust ports and water in the oil. At this point I am at a loss of what to do. Rite now the valve stems have a layer of water on them ( 5 of the 8 exhaust).

I am not sure if the machine shop installed new guides. It does not look like it and the ticket does not indicate anything other than head work. I am going to run by and talk to him this afternoon and see what he says. I am not all to happy with him or the shop so I am not spending any more with him. I don't really expect him to give me any usable information either. I am very disappointed due to his good rep. around town.

What brand and type of intake? Iron or aluminum? What intake gaskets were used? How were the front and back ends where the block meets the intake sealed (end pieces or just gasket sealer)? IMO water in that many places sounds like the way the intake is installed might be the problem.

leaking exhaust
 

I just had this same problem in my Cigarette. I had my mechanic pull the motor to put a new fly wheel on. When he reinstalled the motor he did not put a silicone sealent at the end of the header meeting the tail pipe. I run lightning headers with dry tail pipes. What was happening, when the boat was idling, it was sucking it back into the motor due to the cam this is in the motor. My tail pipes only go into the header about 1 inch. I am told that they should push up more than that, but oh well.

Curious why you feel this way ??? Is it because he cant find anything wrong with the heads ?? Maybe there isnt anything wrong with them.

If you have had it holding 20lbs of pressure for a week, then I doubt that there is a crack, pin hole etc. Every once in a while there will be something that just will not show up until you get the engine good and hot and running, but it is very rare and almost impossible to find. Not very fair to blame your machine shop if they cant find it :(

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

This is the third rebuild this machine shop has done on the motor. First one ended after about 5 hours of service with a dropped valve seat. Engine locked up at idle speed. New valve seats several new valves new piston new rod new crank. Second rebuild ended after all the main bearings were ate out in only 10 hours of service. This included the break time which the shop did. The result, another new crank, several rods and new main caps. The machine shop is admit that I had ran the motor without oil. I never ran the motor without or low on oil. My oil cooler is new and plumbed correctly. Now the motor is constantly showing water in the oil issues which can not be explained. Same shop has seen the heads the intake and the block a total of 3 times to try and find the reason for the water. I have die tested, pressure tested, leak tested everything I can without any indication of a problem. The only thing I have found is water on the valve stems. This water is not pouring out by no means it is just there. I wipe it off and the next day it is there again. The exhaust ports are rusty almost like the water is pushing thru pours metal.
I have been kicking around the idea of new heads. My thoughts are that the previous owner did not flush the motors adequately and the head material in the water passages have been heavily corroded away.

Aluminum made in China intake. When water first showed in the oil I tried several intake gaskets with no luck. I was ready to purchase a new dart or merlin intake. I took the intake to the shop just to see if it was warped or if something was obviously wrong. The shop convinced me that the intake was fine and I reinstalled.
I have tried felpro and Mr. Gasket gaskets both with and without the embedded sealant. I have also added small amounts of sealant to dry gaskets. the ends of the block are sealed with RTV. I feel certain that the intake gasket is not the issue this time and the ability of the block to hold pressure for extended periods backs my thought.

Im telling you guys I have tried everything I can think of and read about and still the problem persists. The only thing I have not tried is a different machine shop.

Ouch,
Sounds like you have had your share of issues :( I still dont think the water and oil on the valve stems has anything to do with it though. Like I said in the previous post, it is probably just running down the stem from up top. That stuff will get everywhere.

The dropped valve seat is something VERY hard to predict. Short of replacing all of them on every rebuild, there is not much you can do except to make sure and magnaflux the heads very carefully. I have found several cracked seats in Mercruiser heads in the past. Any seat that even looks suspicious gets replaced, but never all of them just for grins.

Not sure what to say about the main bearings. My experience has been that if a Chevy bottom end is going to have a problem, it does it right away, not after ten hours of running.

Back to your water problem, I dont know what going to a different machine shop will do ? You are doing the same exact tests that any of us would do, only difference is I usually use 40 lbs of pressure, but thats kind of hard to do on an assembled engine. I will say that if it was an engine I built, I would be doing anything I could to help you figure out the problem.

Any way you could bolt a set of headers on it and run it like that for a while ? Maybe pump the seawater overboard instead of into the exhaust just for testing purposes ? Other possibility would be to put it on a dyno and run it and see if the water is still there without the wet exhaust.

Wish I could think of something else :(

Where are you located anyway ?

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

I'm in NE Florida. I got a second hand set of headers that a hacked up tonight to fit on the motor while in the cradle. I flipped the motor over and really looked the exhaust ports over good. Used a pick and hammer to test and no soft spots were found. Pulled the pan and cleaned out all the milkshake. Break cleanered everything a little air to dry and replaced pan. Tomorrow plan on running with the hached headers to see what happens.
One thing I did notice when I pulled the pan was rust drops under the #1 cylinder in the pan. Looking at the bore you can see a rust ring near the bottom all the way around the cylinder. I'd say it is collecting there from the oil ring at the bottom of the stroke. The #1 exhuast port is rusty and water is on the vavle stem.

Well ran it the first stage of a 3 stage break in. 20 min. at about 1500 rpm. Nothing but motor. No oil cooler or marine exhaust. After about 15 mins. the oil started to show signs of water. Not as bad as before. I plumbed the cooling water into a bucket so I could see if oil showed up there and it did. So oil in the water and water in the oil. Also saw wet exhaust ports. On top of all this, oil pressure started at about 50 psi and during the 20 min. run dropped to 19. So, what are the thoughts? I plan on pulling the pan and looking at the mains to see how they look. From that Im at a loss.

ck,

I guess the only thing to do is tear it down again and look at everything real carefully :( If there is oil getting into the water it almost has to be a cracked block. That is the only place there is pressurized oil anywhere near a water jacket. Problem is it is almost impossible to completely seal off the oiling system to pressurize it to check for cracks.


Not sure what type of magnaflux machine your machine shop has but at this point I would say you need to find someone with a wet type magnaflux, which not all that many shops have. Anyone who grinds crankshafts should have one but finding one big enough to do a block is the trick.

I would be looking at the one cylinder with the rust ring real closely.

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

crack
 

SOunds like a block crack in the water jacket next to the cly. Had that issue in a 460 in a jet years ago.. Block is great paper weight..
Hate to say it but tear her down and have the block checked.. There are companies that weld and will guarantee the repair.