Destroyed Raylar Valves - Faired Well
 

Thought I’d share these pics which might be of some interest for a few. Lots of valves out there would most likely be broken after this abuse but Raylar’s nitride treatment seems to be effective & beneficial.

Although it beat the snot out of the piston, the engine was saved overall.

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What happened to the valvetrain for this to happen?

:eekdrop:

The nitride isn't just a surface treatment?

Ditto!

They did not come out of my engine. My chit is healthy!

:coolcowboy:

Did someone Maybe break a timing chain?

it is

+1

That's what I thought. Just trying to figure out what that had to do with the bent valves above?

Soooooooooooooooooo, why did the piston(s) hit the valves?

What isw QPQ Nitirding?
 

Guess I should chime in here since these are our valves.
First the nitride process we use on our valves is not a surface chemical nitiride like one would see from various surface finishes. It is what is called in the industry as a QPQ nitride treatment. this is a process where the item is heated to about 950 degrees or so then dipped in a hot ferritic bath and then brought out, temperature controlled slow cooled and then polished. It is then retreated again in nearly the same process so its called "Quench, Polish, Quench" or QPQ.
This process is used on our one piece forged EV-8 stainless alloy valves and whn finished the valves metalurgical properties are actually altered and the surface hardness is created about .003" to .005" into the surface. BMW. Honda, Mercedes, ETC. have been using this valve construction and treatment for many years now with awesome results.
At the same time the overall ductability (flexibility) of the valve is increased to a point where the valves can sustain damage like this and not snap or break off at the stems. We can actually take one of our valves treated with this process and bend the valve head a 90 degrees to the stem and not have the valve head break off. Try that with some other stainless valves!
The secondary benefit is that the lubricity of the treated surface on the valve stem is so good that we don't have to chrome the valve stems and the stem wear and wear on the valve guides is almost non-existant after hundreds of hours of high performance engine use. The stems just polish up and get so nice in the guide its scarey!

What happened to each of these valves.
One, the intake came out of an engine that broke a pushrod guide plate, the pushrod bent slightly and the roller rocker slipped off the tip of the valve stem, pushed down on the retainer and released the valve locks and the valve dropped onto the forged piston and wacked the piston real hard at about 5000 rpms, bent as you see it and wedged in the valve guide and stayed there.
Many valves after this type of collision would break off at the stem, drop inot the engine and kiss the whole block goodbye!

The exhaust valve came out of a stock 496 block engine with Raylar aluminum heads and a Whipple supercharger. Those stock GM cast pistons don't like supercharging period! The engine grenaded and the valve hit the breaking piston and rod at that point of destruction.

Considering we are currently at cylinder head serial number
794 which equates to over 6300 valves and I have seen less than 5 or 6 valves in this condition I would say our methods of cylinder head construction, valve design and construction are pretty good and speak well of our QPQ nitirding process and the quality of our one piece forged valves.

Someone is going to get smart pretty soon and start using this process to treat Bravo and other gearsets and shafts and really start make a big improvement in drive strength and life!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Souds like a GREAT opportunity for Raylar to get into the gear treatment business.... Cool stuff.

Treated or not at the end of the day they are still junk !!!!!!

Well, maybe it's no big deal to everyone but I thought it was kinda cool that they didn't break. What can I say?

..And with all the keyboard engineers these days with the "negative nancy" replies....

Your stuff must just be a little nicer; that's fine too.

Sure doesn't bother me that those valves are in my engine and it's a far cry from "junk" when compared not only to what came out of it but also when compared to most of the other stainless products in its class.

But it's just one opinion on the surface - happy winter!

:drink:

I think he was referring to bravo gears. Unless of course he has some negative story to tell about Raylar valves.:kiss:

I wish that my valves had been treated like that. A broken off intake valve does some damage to an engine, especially when it passes through the intake and destroys both sides.:lolhit:

As far as the XR Gears; yup I could not agree more with you. I have an entire thread on my failure. When the new XR gets here this week i may just tear it apart and send the gears in to try it. doesn't cost much to put back together new..

Didn't you start a thread about your gear oil?

Maybe that is a place to start.

My 2 cents.

Ken

I second that, a little piece of mind. I just hope my Raylar 600 never has a catastrophic failure of that nature.

Now where could one send some Bravo gears to have this process done?

I don't understand. The grease in the bottom of the oil quart didn't have anything to do with the failure.

We beat the XR topic to death last time. It's common knowledge at this point regarding the newer XR's. Somone else mentioned the XR problems in the valve thread and tied them together.

Maybe I misunderstood - thanx

flexible gears?...I don't know:party-smiley-004:

Just did a little research on ferritic nitrocarburizing and it looks like a great idea for gears as well. Tufftride is a form of this that is more familiar. I would definitely like to find someone that does this. Not only do the parts wear better, they are more corrosion resistant than hard chrome.

The only concern with XR gears is that the two driven gears have the large brass rings for the cone clutch on them and I don't see a way to get them off and back on without total destruction.

The drive gear and two lower unit gears could be done. However, the brass on the two driven gears would contaminate the bath therefore, they won't treat them. They are two out of the three most critical parts..

Has anyone been able to get the brass off and then back on?

SD, I am not saying the the gear oil is at fault, it could be contributory. You have to admitt, finding "grease" in the bottle isn't normal.

Wouldn't you want to find out what the stuff is and why it happened?

I would be curious if happened to me.

Maybe it was a wrong additive, base stock interaction with an additive and it cause a gelling issue. I know if I found this "grease" in a bottle of gear oil I was using, I would like some answers and just maybe change brands.

Ken

Yes, I agree and that's why I made the post; hoping that someone else has seen this before.

As long as you use the whole quart at fill time or if you only have the residual in a bottle under the seat I guess it doesn't matter.

It only does this if you open and then fail to use it. Once in the gearcase after opening, it's safe to say you got everything you were supposed to.

I wondered if it could be the emulsifying additive that is not present in non-marine gear oil..

Why doesn't a concerned user shoot off an email to Amsoil technical depatment and ask an expert how they can shed some light on this mystery? Sounds like a good idea to me.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

I saw a piece awhile back on one of the crappier automotive shows like "Truck U" that involved a tour of a motor oil company. During the tour, they showed the polymers they add to the base stock and it looked like little balls of wax. Very similar to the material in your pics.

Ray, I came across this somewhat old thread while doing some research. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a set of inconel valves for my 489. How does a valve with this treatment compare to an inconel exhaust valve, or did you start with a valve made of that alloy? What is the approximate cost per valve to have the treatment done?

Thanks!