Water/Methanol injection
 

I am looking in a water/methanol injection kit for my blower engine. The engine is a upgrade 525sc with aluminum head 8:1 comp ratio stock merc ingnition 35* at 4500 with a 2.45 ratio puley on the 177 blower, With that setup i think that is a good idea to install a water/methanol injection to keep the engine safe and keep the 177 blower more efficient.

Anyone have try or have some experience with water/methanol injection setup???

Any idea on that setup?

Similar setup have been tested?

Where's runninghot when you need him. You ought to search methanol injection on the board and pm some of the guys who are doing it. They will be able to tell you what you need. No one around me is doing it. Good luck, thats a nice engine combo.

Call Rudy Dryden @ 302 367 4962

He is in Delaware, dont know where you are located but I am sure he would talk to you about it.

He has a few sets running around. Did RunningHots Meth injection as well as a few others.

I use one from cooling mist

I am from Quebec,Canada it is hard for me to talk by phone because i speek french and my english is litle hard by phone but thanks for the info .

The timing seems high for a blower motor, how much boost are you running ?

Did you ever get an answer on this question. I would also like to add meth mix on my 525sc when I cant find 93 gas and need to run 89. Im in ontario

A guy near me with a trip 525 sc fountain uses torco octane boost and pump 89, 4 seasons without an issue.

seems like a blower upgrade and superchiller is a better investment than just adding a bandaid to the hot air blowing stock 177

The triple 525sc is pretty thirsty and when Im far away and need gas and they only have 89 available, the methanol could be turned on just to provide detonation insurance while getting on plane.
Any other ideas like a way to control boost or take some timing away?

Carry some octane boost with u and u are good to go. Every carb blower motor I tuned I set on the fat side a little bit. Never had any trouble and one was beat on very hard by a lead footed 19yr old kid!! I can not see any reason to put a water methanol injection system on but I don't know everything.....

Ive never been able to find out how much octane boost is required to raise 89 to 93 per gallon. Non of the cans say it on the label. Do you know? I carry 300 gallons of gas and i thought it would take a lot of octane booster

what about something like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ms...FawWMgodkl0ApA

I thought they were only used with MSD ignition modules. I use the Merc TB1v

I agree.

I wouldn't be retarding the timing much. The exhaust valves will take a hit from the increased EGT temps. The stock timing curve is pretty lazy on a 525sc. I think youd be fine on 89 with adding intercoolers. Or upgrade to a larger blower like a 671, 871, or 420 B&M, and keep the boost around 5lbs. The larger blower will cool the air down much more than the little 177 blower even without intercoolers..

If you do a search, there should be an old thread on meth injection systems. If memory serves me correct, in the thread Bill Pyburn (Pure Platinum Skater) gave input and basically gave credit to the injection for the longevity regarding the run time in the 1350's he was running.

Im in whitby can you recommend an engine guy?

I like the components from AIS- http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/index.html
Talk to Rodney, they can set you up, and have complete bolt in kits with everything you need. Spraying into the top of the blower will dramatically lower your air temp. On a setup like yours I'd probably knock the timing down to 33-34 max, and have the water meth come in at 2lbs boost. Should have no problems running 89 on a setup like that. The nice thing about these kits in a boat is there's usually enough room for a decent sized tank. You can even set it up to run straight water. It doesn't have the same power potential as water meth, but it will keep your engine's safe.

I was looking into this a few years back but never really followed thru with it. I saw a setup before, that I thought was pretty neat. The guy had two pumps. The first pump came on at like 2-3psi, and sprayed in the rear of the blower, on BOTH engines. Then, at full boost, pump #2 came on, spraying in the front of the blowers. I don't know how that worked for him, but seemed like a cool idea.

Alex, how would you compare the cooling effects of water/meth to say an intercooler on a roots blower? I see the car guys seem to be getting some pretty cold IAT temps with meth injection.

I know that backing off the timing will hurt exhaust valves and dont want that. I dont have knock sensors on a tb4 so i cant take timing out that way.
The intercooler is the way to go but getting 3 is a bit much for the odd time when i need gas and there isnt any 92 available for the way home. I dont run wide open when this happens and i try to keep the revs down to avoid boost. Just looking for detonation insurance. Anyone know how much additive is needed to raise octane level from 89 to 92.

Entec racing was a engine shop in scarborough that rebuilds for mercury and i think they do a lot of performance work too. Also, Raymond at Double R on highway 11 north of Barrie has everything a performance boater needs.

Snow performance has a kit claiming to be ideal for blower motors and have the same effect as going from 93 to 116 octane and adding 50-70 hp. Seen it in some magazine i had on the airplane and it caught my attention. I known its a great way to lower temps and add a little power with a diesel but if its everything they say for blown gasser i might have to look into it.

I have used water/alcohol injection a long time ago ('85) on a small non intercooled motor similar to the 525s, we had a 3 gallon tank that was pressurized by the blower (More boost more tank pressure) used a Hobbs switch that closed at 2LBS letting the mixture flow, more boost more liquid to the motor, ran 30* total timing (not Locked) boost ref carbs, and it was pretty much a bullet proof set up as far as detonation was concerned. Inexpensive alternative to a good intercooler, but back then it was the only choice. That being said if one could swing it, I would have to suggest using an intercooler.

A lot of that depends on the size, material, and design of the core, as well as the temperature of the cooling water. An intercooler is a simple way of getting it done for sure, and a good solution for a boat. On an application like the OP though, I might be hesitant to invest that kind of money on the mediocre intercoolers specific to that style blower. If he got the water meth kits set up, the majority of it could transfer over if he upgrades blowers down the road. Having both systems is really the cats azz. You could run primarily on the intercooler and then have the meth come in at a specific manifold air temp to keep things safe. That type of tuning strategy works much better with EFI because you can adjust the target afr and spark to take advantage of the power potential of the water meth mix. With a carb app it is a little more difficult but you still get the safety factor. I have only done a couple of roots setups with it and it worked well, on centrifugal's if you spray pre-blower it will make more boost then without. I would assume running enough through a roots blower would have a similar effect by sealing and cooling the rotors. If you do set up your engine to rely on the water meth, then you better have GOOD safety measure's in place in case you run out of fluid, or have a pump failure/issue. No different really then making sure you have good fuel pressure, but something to consider in the setup. I can show you pictures of what happens when you run out of fluid but don't lift 'cause you're racing your buddy up the river and don't want to lose... :)

Im gonna be installing IAT gauges on my setup this year. I want to get some baseline temp numbers, and see if any cooling effect would be worth it. I am pretty maxed out on power with my setup from a reliability standpoint, but should still be interesting to see the numbers. :coolcowboy:

as stated in my earlier reply, tried one from cooling mist, never could get it to flow the correct amount so not to kill RPM, took it off and run it with 2 huge nozzles on my X275 turbo drag car..works awesome there(ls1 25psi on E85, NO intercooler), but if you can fine tune the water flow you can run more boost/timing with it with lower octane...now that we did our own EFI setup on the boat would like to try the meth inj again...