Whipple install ?'s
 

Ok everyone, I finally got all of my parts in and will do the install next week. I have a 1997 28 Eliminator with a 502MPI vst setup and stock manifolds. I am currently running a 24 bravo at 64MPH, 4700 RPM, and 3200ft elevation. I ordered an XR upper with a 2" IMCO shorty from Marc at BAM which hasn't come in yet, but that should cover the drive/power issue(I hope). The motor has about 200 hr and I probably should have freshened it up, but I'm already over budget with addition of the WPM steering and new prop. I love the steering. :D :D
Some questions about the Whipple,

1. Removing the thermostat. What effect does this have on the water pressure? Do I need to install a restrictor in place of the thermostat? Whipple say's it needs to be at least 16 at full throttle. The IMCO has the low water pickup.

2. The instructions say I should have 35 psi on the stock fuel rail at idle and maintain 38-41 cruising. My system is currently running at 30psi idle and 32 cruising. This is what the book say's it should be. I purchased a vortec adjustable regulator. Is this the fix?

3. Where is a good place to install the water dump? Pro's : Con's Port, starboard, or out the transom. :confused:

4. What prop will I need? A couple of friends have 28 Bravo's that I can borrow to try. Marc thinks I will need a 26 bravo. I am wondering if either will work with the 2" shorty. My prop shaft is about 5 1/2" below the bottom of the boat and the cavitation plate is about 1 1/2"above . I did talk to Jerry at Eliminator and he said that he was pretty sure it wouldn't be a problem, so I hope he is right. I know I can put in a spacer kit, but that is another $750 bucks or so.

We maybe going to the Shotout in LOTO so I have to be ready.
Any advise or ideas would be appreciated. I know there are alot of issues, and I don't want to miss something simple.


Thanks for your input. OSO is awesome!

If you are going to pull the engine I would reccomend better head gaskets. I hear a lot about people upgrading to whipples or other blowers only to blow the original gaskets. I cant say which ones or part numbers but when I had my engines built they did replace them with better ones. At 200 hours I would have the engine checked out for compression and valve trane integrity

I dont know about the thermostat but I believe I dont have one my water temp is at about 120 - 130. It may have a restrictor plate but I am not sure

I have the vortech regulator on my setup and all is well.

Water dump mine is out the back, but it would be nice to have it on the drivers side so you could verify water flow. No water flow = Bang.

Prop, start out with your 24 to make sure everything is OK then try the 28 if the RPM's are low drop down to a 26. Dont buy one untill you test a little. But I do have faith in Marc at BAM. You should be able to tell if you need a spacer with the 24P. If it ventilates too much.

Your drive should be fine but a drive shower would be better.

Thanks for the good info Raypanic on the water dump. I never thought about being able to see the water coming out, great idea. I will put it on the drivers side.
Also I wasn't sure if the prop would cavitate using the 24p if it's to high. I will test it and see what happens.
Thanks cat. I happen to have a brand new Simrek drive shower in the box just waiting to be put on.

? I probably won't have the drive until about the 4th of July, Marc is waiting for prop shafts. Is it ok if I test with the stock Bravo?

It sounds like I should get some new head gaskets and put them on. Anyone know what type works good on this setup? I will do a search for head gaskets and see what I can find out. I'm sure this has been discussed before. If I pull the heads maybe I should just go ahead and freshen them up. Can also check out the valve trane at the same time.

I knew I could get some good answers from the OSO family! What a great place! THANKS

Whipple install
 

28E- If I remember right you've got a V- not a cat. The simrek shower should work OK on a v but may be borderline with an elevated pickup/cavitation plate.

I would run the intercooler dump just to to one side of the drive and plumb it to a shower like the one innovative marine makes. On my boat I just fabbed a 5/8 swept elbow to the top/center of my emi shower- it sends a nice sheet of water down the sides of the drive.

While it may be reassuring to be able to look over your shoulder and see the water dumping out the side it may be a better idea to look where you are going and occasionally glance down at water temp and pressure gages- these will verify that all is Ok. The factory merc bells and whistles will also chime in if there are temp problems. If the intercooler were to clog- and that's a big if- you would simply get hotter air, which, yes, would lead to detonation in an extreme situation and the knock sensor would pick it up and pull timing out- warning you without the bang. I suspect your little EGT light would be triggered as well as you approached this threshold- again verify with Dustin if you like.

I'm betting you'll pull the 28 ,especially if it's labbed. I went from a 22 (1.36 gr) to a merc labbed 28 which can kiss the rev limiter (5450 now with the Whipple) in favorable conditions. Most of the time I run my labbed 30 for slightly better cruise.

With regard to your fuel pressure- are you using a mechanical gage- if not I'd get one to verify pressure. Dustin can confirm, if you really do have lower pressure, the reg may be a short term fix for a tired pump.

Testing with your stock 200 hr Bravo is a risk- especially on a bigger v-hull like yours. right now it has some value. July 4 is what- 10 more days? If you must temp fate, do it with the 24 as this will tax the drive much less than the bigger wheels.

If you go to the trouble of changing head gaskets you want the felpro one with the built in o-rings. Spend the $100 or less for some ARP head bolts as well as the better gaskets are only 1/2 of the equation. I've got 70 hrs on my 454 mag efi with stock gaskets and bolts for what it's worth- umm, and my pulley seems to have shrunk a little since the original install. Good luck with the install, take your time, you will be rewarded with big smiles:D

You are right Cat, it is a V. Does the simrek still work on the IMCO shorter drive, where is the cavitation plate? Thanks for the info about props. I hope you are right about the 28P.
As far as my fuel pressure now, it is where the manual say's it should be, just not as high as whipple say's it should be. I put on my test gauge this week end to verify and it is right on. So I don't think it is going bad, but I could change it to be sure.:confused:

Do you guy's run 2 fuel pressure gauges or what. The fuel pump with the whipple has a gauge attached to it. I installed a guage on the dash, but I'm not sure which one to hook it up to.

Ok, now about head gaskets. I still haven't decided what to do. What is the difference between the felpro marine and the felpro perma torque head gaskets. I have always used perma torque gaskets drag racing cars and have good luck. Do the marine ones block off some holes or something?:confused:

Thanks Guy's

I'll help where I can
 

28E -your shorty comes with a bolt on polished stainless cavitation plate which will be higher than your old one. Personally, I would be concerned about getting enough water to the higher cavitation plate at speeds. That's why I recommend the "free" reliable source of water from the intercooler dump.

As far as the fuel pressure goes, I've got a single mechanical gage reading the Whipple's auxilary pump. I don't recall the reasoning but it seems after talking with Dustin I was convinced the single gage, reading his pump was adequate.

I'm like you with the head gaskets- don't have all the answers but when I had a tube chassis mud drag car years ago we ran good bolts and felpro's o-ring gaskets with lots of nitrous- never a problem.

I'll take a look at the transom and see if I can dump on the drive. The more water on the drive the better. I will go ahead and hook up the fuel pressure to the Aux pump, that's what I was planning, but just trying to get second opinions.

Anybody think of any thing else I may be missing please let me know. I will be Ripping into this thing this week.

Room for gages??
 

If you're struggling to find space for the added gages you can consider the Nordskog digital speedo which will also serve as a voltmeter, tach and compass at the flip of a switch. Bury it into the cost of the project so you don't need to do another sell on the CFO down the road. Sounds like you've given this project a lot of thought. Good luck!:D

A lot of thought and a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$:D :D
I've been planning this all winter. Most of the time I was reading here on the board instead of replying, so much to read. I don't even know it all, but this is a great place to find the answers.

I actually have the room for the gauges, in fact, they are already installed and waiting to be hooked up in the engine compartment.

The CFO has already put a hold on the check book, that's why I bought the cheaper stuff first, because I knew it would become tight. Not to mention the $100 bucks for gas this weekend. HOLD on did I just use that word (cheaper) concerning the boat. I must be high or something.

Well, here goes. I'm not getting anything done sitting here on the computer. Time to start ripping the seat out and get to work.:)

Been there done that.
 

I have a very similar set up to what you are doing - 29 warlock with whippled 502. I had all the same issues and questions and would be more that happy to share my experiences/solutions with you. I'm not a gear head but managed to complete the install on my own (with Dustin's advice of course) in a weekend and a couple week nights to tie things up with great results. My number is 801 560-7989, feel free to call.

Shane

what about inconnel exhaust valves
 

are these needed on this type of set up. If it was me I would, just for the sercuity. I dropped and exhaust valve many years ago and it ain't pretty. A different set up though. I also have a Simrek drive shower. It is made to fit an Imco 2" shortie. Work and looks great.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forum/sh...threadid=26113

Thanks for the offer Shane, I may call you. Is that a day time
# or evening time?
MIKEHTMSR24, I pm'd you. I have a question about your drive shower because I can't get to the picture. OSO say's I don't have rights to see it. Is it the halo or the one that wraps over the top. If it is the one that wraps over the top does it only have 1 or 2 holes for spraying water? I need the type that goes over the top so it will fit with my WPM steering. The holes are already drilled.

You are probably right about the valves. I should also probably change head gaskets, but I am going to wait. I talked to Bruce and he said that I should wait and do the upgrades to it as a winter project. We don't boat in salt water, which isn't quit as hard on them. I know a couple of people that didn't do the upgrades and they have been runnig good for 4 years, so hopefully my luck is as good.

Thanks,

pic of my drive shower
 

:D

The drive shower
 

The whole story:

It has two water pickup with the 90* pickups
It has two mounting holes on the top mounting bracket. I used the one farest from the tube.
It has 7 water outlet holes. 3 in the top and 2 on each side.

Sorry I didn't have a pic of the shower on my 2" Imco shortie.

This shower is cut down to fit Imco's 2" shortie. Model of shower is Summit. It has the new style 90 degree water pick up ports. The only thing you will have to do is drill one hole on the Imco cavatation plate like the one on the port side of the plate. I sold my shortie and new owner didn't need shower. Going with a SC drive which has it's own shower system. Half price. $60.00 includes shipping to any of the 48 states.

:p .... I was just on www.sterndrives.com looking at service bulletins......
Mercruiser has service bulletin # 00-8 for replacing Bravo's with XR's, etc. They say it requires you to change the transom brackets also !!! Don't want to be a stick in the mud, but best to look at this notice before you install the new drive!
I had my "dump" out the side on my former boat, and out the back on the current one. I liked the side better.... a constant quick check of impellor condition as well as intercooler blockage. The Simrek shower dumps more than enough water on the drive to cool it, just ask Paul from Simrek....the intercooler output is insignificant for that!!
Removing the thermostat will not only make the engine run cooler, oil temp will decrease also. water pressure will also drop some, but not a lot..... you can add a restrictor plate, but it will raise temp's also. I have done both and ended up leaving the plates out......
GOOD LUCK & hope you get done for LOTO>
:cool:

MIKEHTMSR24, That's what I need & that's what I have. But mine is not cut down yet, so I will buy yours and sell mine to one of my buddies. PM or e-mail me your address and phone # and I can get you some $$$. The only thing is, I will need it by the end of next week.

blown formula, Good catch on the drive bulletin. :D
I'm not sure what you mean by (transom brackets), It say's to use a magnum or Hi-Proformance transom. So, what do I have. Marc from BAM is supposed to send me a new bearing with the drive as well as some limiters for the tilt cylinders. I will have to ask him about this. Thanks for all your input on the water dump and the restrictor.

I haven't decided what to do with the dump yet. I will figure it out tonight. Every thing is going together very well, it's just time consuming. It looks like we have all of the hard stuff done and now we just need to hook up some vacuum lines and bolt the whipple on, along with the fuel lines and wires to the throttle body. A friend on the board (sdelim25) is helping out and making it go faster.
If anyone has any info for his boat it would be appriciated as well. He has a 496, but the whipple isn't out yet so he is looking for someone who has tried a procharger.

Thanks guy's

address and phone #
 

Mike Parks
10 Seminole Dr.
Simpsonville, SC 29680
work call between 7 to 7:30 am EST or 3:30 to 4 pm EST
( You can call and leave a message anytime) 864-967-1728
I will be on vacation after this fri afternoon and won't be back home until 7/9/02

[email protected]

What is your address and I can ship it tom.

The install is done and the only thing left to do is run the wire to the dash and hookup the warning light and possibly adjust the fuel pressure on the adjustable regulator.

Does anyone know why the fuel pressure fluctuates with the vortech adjustable, or is the problem something else. The fuel pressure bounces between about 45 - 50 at idle. then as you throttle up it fluctuates at 38-41 rapidly:confused: :confused:


Mike I will send the check out today (Friday). I will have you send it to my work. the address is;
Golden West Technologies
Rockie Nikkila
2727 North Plaza Dr.
Rapid City, SD 57702

FYI for those interested. I talked to Dustin about the fuel pressure on the Vortec regulator and the reason it is fluctuating is because I have the vacuum line hooked to it. Maybe I missed something when I read the instuctions, but I don't remember it saying that. Anyway I will try that this weekend and see if I can get it adjusted properly.:p :p :cool:

MIKEHTMSR24, the check's in the mail.
Sounds like some of my boat part experiences (parts are in the mail), then you call back a week later and they haven't been sent yet.
Trust me ;) ;) ;) This one is definitely in the mail.

I will be at the lake testing for the weekend.
More updates later. Everyone have a good and safe weekend!

Weekend update, I borrowed a 28P Bravo and it comes on plan great, so I think I might be able to use it.
I still have somethings to work out. The auxillary fuel pressure was 30 PSI. I talked to Dustin and he had me dead head the pump to see if the pressure came up and it did, but then dropped once power was removed from the pump. I just used visgrips to get the pressure up for testing. Dustin is going to send me both, pump and regulator to see which is bad.

The problem with my stock fuel pressure was I forgot to install the spring when I installed the vortec. I saw it sitting on my work bench and the lights went on.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The spark plugs look like I just pulled them out of the package. It is running super lean, so I didn't run it much. I tried running at idle, 2000, 3000 RPM and the plug never had any color. I sent both of the computers to Dustin for programing. Hopefully he will get them back to me by Wed. for more testing.:cool:

I took it up to 4000 RPM once for about 10 seconds with the 28P and I had alot of throttle left. That put me at 70MPH WAAAHOOO this baby is going to rock & roll when I get some gas to it so I don't burn it up. :D :D :D :cool: I'm still waiting for my new drive from Marc. He did get the parts to put it together, now he just needs to find the time. It is all paid for, so maybe they can get to it this week.

I'm not going to take it out again until I get the new drive on it. It's to tempting to hit the throttle. My water pressure is way to low also, but the LWP should remedy that. I could probably fix that, but I don't want to rip the drive apart anyway.

More updates when available.