full hyd hoses failing
 

ok, he deal, working on a boat, installed a hardin marine inside hyd kit, used the tool to make the lines per them...have not been used 1 hour, three lines have blown out of the ends....now they are breaking about 3/4" from the end of the hose, otherwise leaving about that amount inside the fitting...so took the 1st one to hyd hose shop...he recut and tried to press a new fitting on....hose just mushroomed at the end...had him make a new one with his hose...worked fine...we even changed to the new hardin special made P/S pump just in case...well just blew #3 today...customer is losing it !!! hose co says that the hose is junk the way it's acting ??? just wondering if anybody has run into such a deal...**** hitting the fan here....hose in question was what they included with their kit...thanks

Just had a line blow on me today man. Pressure output busted right at the banjo fitting. Pulled right out of the fitting, left the outter rubber layer in the fitting and took it right down to the stainless.

I think it's an issue with installing the hose ends. The problem I found was no matter what type of lube (I used wd-40 and syn motor oil) I could not keep the hose from spinning in the cap assembly while I was screwing in the tube end. When the hose is spinning it's actually turning the hose tighter into the cap and stripping the rubber.

The particular line that blew out on mine I knew had spun alot on me while assembling. I had made this line twice as I wanted to see if there was any damage when this was going on. What I saw was that it was stripping the outter rubber off just like what happened today. So apparently my last attempt at making that hose failed as well.

I'm not sure what to do, as the banjo fitting is a different size and flare compared to the rest. I had talked to Mike at CP and told him my troubles with these lines spinning in the fitting, he said that I should be assimbling with hose assembly lube, not wd-40 or whatever. Not sure if it will make the difference or not.

Maybe CP can make up a couple of lines and send them out if they can make a fitting end that will not pop off..........

It has been my experience that WD-40 will soften and eat the rubber , put it in your air tools and see what happens . Use hydraulic oil for lube when assembling fittings .

sounds exactly whats going with the..now 3 have done it all different ones, I used atf when putting them together...looks to me the hose is coming apart right down to the braided...now mine was not spinning..I marked the hose so could make sure hose was not being pushed out when inserting the nut end...going to pull all them back off today...and will be talking to CP as well...this is crap..

I used a counter sink bit and counter sunk the end of the hose and that seemed to work pretty well. The bit was 37 degrees.

I used the correct tool when I did these....

I had the same problem with the hose spinning in the fitting. When i champhered the end of the hose the fittings went on fine. Also you can screw the outer fitting on too tight and it makes it verry hard to assemble.

Well i'm not F'in around with supposed fixes to these fittings. I'm having all new lines made with crimp on fittings. I almost had an Indian Jones moment with a dam yesterday because of this crap. Not doing in again.

amen brother !!!!! doing the same here...CP is taking all the hose and fittings back....pulling them all off today....seems the hose they got is garbage !!! talked to 3 hyd people now who said the same thing...and now I'm not the only one....something is up....maybe some outsourced chinese crap !!!

Have you talked to Mike about this? Did he say he was going to reimburse at all?

Yes, have been talking with him the whole time...and this am....going to run them down and get them made wed I hope...busy tomorrow....then boxing all of it up and sending back....he offered more hose...but I know that would take more time and I would rather have this go out with pressed on ends...no more of this B/S

roger, you happen to mention that a fellow oso'er was also having an issue?

yes, told him about post I put up...Rob

I tried to give him a call, but he's a busy guy and wasn't able to hook up with him. Ended up sending him an email. He's supported me well and gave great customer service with other projects, i'm sure he will support me with this issue.

I had exactly the same problem with the Hardin inside hyd kit that I bought from CP 1 year ago. They blew off from 2 different fittings. Took it to my local hydraulic shop, they classified it as crap. Pressed new fittings on new hoses and have had no problem since then. I had all kinds of problems with that order from CP and just didn´t bother to contact them again (the inside hyd kit was just a small part of the order).

how did your boat react when the lines blew off? Was anybody running high rpm when it happened. Just wondering.

My buddy was driving and coming around to get the ski rope to me. Blew at idle turn the wheel to the right. Maybe he hit the right stop, but shouldn't have blown the line off either way. He said it jerked the steering wheel then it went hard to turn. I'm just glad it happened at idle, and not at 80mph. Would have prefered to not have it happen when i'm 100' from the dam though. We were close enough I could hear the rush of the water going over. My buds were getting the anchors out fast at that point, but the drive was pointing in the right direction for me to start it up and puke out the last remaining hydro fluid to get us idled away and get the drive straight to put some distance between us and the dam. Got about 300' away and lost complete steering and had to get a tow. Took 2 hrs to get back to the trailer. Long day........

I was at idle both times it happened luckily. I have also wondered what will happen if it blew off at high rpm and high loads from steering rams. From what I experienced when idleing it took a lot longer than I thought before I lost steering completely. I think and hope that there will be time to back off before something real bad happens. Perhaps someone with real knowledge about hydraulic steering can tell us. I hope Hardin takes these fittings out of market since it obviously is a big safety issue!!

I'll be picking up my new hoses and crimped on ends Thursday. The high pressure hoses are rated for 3000psi which is more than what was supplied in the kit. Probably overkill, but that's ok. I don't actually know what the pressures are that this system will run with the factory pump. I did open up my output orifice a bit.

Anyone know what the high pressure side psi and return side psi actually is?

max 1500psi closer to 1000-1200, got all these off today..going to hose place tomorrow..think the ones they do here are for 5000psi..they already made the one from the pump to filter...I agree on the dangers here..it's a lawsuit just waiting to happen...because the full hyd system uses all P/S pump pressure as soon there is low/no fluid you are done control wise...now there should be enough pressure in the rams to get you slowed....but if you were in a tricky docking are with a single engine things could get bad quick..

What's the return line psi?

return line is next to nothing....you can run simple slip on with hose clamps on those

roger

Ok, all hoses replaced with 5000psi pressed on ends...should be good to go...all others going back to CP to be checked...Mike there has been awsome to deal with...

Agreed, CP has been the best company for customer support that I have dealt with in quite some time.. Thanks Mike.

Looks like my alternator bit the dust after this little feasko as well. I kinda wondered how it would fare after being dosed by the powersteering fluid seeing how the line broke inches above it and ran all over it. I tried cleaning it off with water and some simple green, but It's only making voltage with rpm's above 3000 now.

have no clue on that one..always something !!! customer did run the boat yesterday and said worked good..thank God !!! had unreal storm roll thru fri eve...91mph winds...destruction everywhere !! 1.5mil without power...marina where I keep our boat no power for days they say..some damage but not to bad...had to clear out fridge yesterday...we have power here, but no phones...

I just had a Hardin Inside kit blow a hose off a fitting after being in use for about 10 hrs.. I was waiting in line to put the boat on the trailer, started the boat, turned the wheel and i heard a snap. It felt like something broke inside the helm. Now im concerened with all the fittings. Blew Hydraulic all over the inside of my dash and cuddy. Im not real happy right about now. The worse part is the whole interior just about needs to come out to replace the junk hoses. Its probably not goig to be cheap either.

I replaced all mine with crimp on ends. Give Mike at CP a call. I've been in contact with him lately, he plans on sending all this hose/fittings back to his vendor to get checked out.

What in the he!! is going on with these hoses? Someone is going to get seriously hurt.
Are they tracking the Lot#'s off of these hoses and getting them out of the market?
There is some serious liability here.

I personally use Parker 3000PSI hydraulic hoses with crimp fittings.

I totally understand, something is up with these hoses, Mike told me they been using the same american supplier for the last 9 years with no issues...now all of a sudden something is really wrong...and very dangerous...now CP has been great with me, I pulled all of the hose, not fun, had all new ones made with crimp on ends and they refunded me the cost(no labor) for them..hell I bet we spend $100 in GM non foaming fluid !!!!!but the new hoses seem to be doing fine.... the one that just blew did it peel off the top layer of the hose ? all 3 that I had did..

No it looked like it just pulled out of the fitting. At first I thought maybe I didnt have the hose seated deep enough in the fitting. Looking closely I can see the marks from the outside fittting at a full depth on the hose. Whats scary is not
5 minutes before it blew I was doing close to 90mph. I just removed all the hoses and getting new crimped on hoses made up. Unfortunatly no hydraulic houses in the area are open on the weekend. This effn sucks. I havent spoke with Hardin Marine yet.

did you put a loop in the hose?? i usually do and never fun the hose tight..needs room for exlansion..

I left the hoses plenty long enough, probably 10- 12 " looped on the side of the boat.

none of the ones I did failed because of any stretching....

The hose shop told me that he has never seen fittings that were unmarked and he thought they should have had more threads to capture the hose. Hardin wants to see my hoses before they make any determination. I feel much better knowing the hoses now have crimp on ends.

i used parker lines and reusable fittings, the R6 stuff if i remember right. 75 bucks for 100 foot of brand new hose with free shipping and around 80 for the 7 reusable jic 37 fittings. been on for a month and still going good. just throwing that out there. i cant imagine blowing out a line at high speeds, the whole reason i installed the steering is for safety...

all my hoses have been returned...they paid for all the crimped hoses we had made...great customer service from CP...mike thanks !