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-   -   Torque Vs. Hp were should they peak??? (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/28370-torque-vs-hp-were-should-they-peak.html)

WETTE VETTE 07-12-2002 07:40 PM

I would guess my curves would be
 
similar to those JDNCA is showing minus around 200 on all of the numbers. I am really sold on big cubes after seeing what his combo does for JDNCA on pump gas in a large boat. My motor has fully ported Dart 325 Pro 1 aluminum heads, 13.2:1 compression, comp solid roller 272/280 @ .050 with .714 lift on a 112+4 installation. I run a Nickerson 1050 Dominator on a Merlin single plane intake and CMI E-top exhaust. Oh yea it is a measley 498 cu. in. I turn a 29 Spinelli 6200 to 6300 RPM for high 90's on GPS. I am currently in the process of trying some larger wheels to see if the top speed can be improved. I haven't dynoed my motor but 700 HP at 6300 to 6500 RPM is probably pretty close. The boat is a 2700 lb Baja 210 vee hull with a short bravo. A little torque down low goes a long way on a boat this light. My biggest problem is I am exceeding the reasonable speeds of the hull. I would love to see 100, but I really doubt it will be in this boat. I'll just take JDNCA's for a ride to satisfy that itch for now.:p

cobra marty 07-12-2002 10:43 PM

Interesting, you have some data and testing that will answer some questions.
My thoughts are- every hull has a specific tq requirement for any given rpm. A boat is like a moving water brake dyno.
For your boat
28L 6500 711TQ = 98mph
30 6100 743TQ = 101mph so an increase in 32ft-lbs tq equals 3mph increase. This is your boats requirements.

Now if 32" 5700 771TQ =? inc. 28tq so inc. =2.5mph 103.5
(decrease 400rpm for 2" pitch)
and if 34" 5300 792TQ =? inc. 21TQ so inc. =2mph 105??

Please test and post your results.
Interesting though you will find increadioble acceleration with the 28" but faster and higher cruise with the 32-34".
Keep it comming.

WETTE VETTE 07-13-2002 11:16 AM

I just tried JDNCA1's 30 Bravo.
 
It did about what I expected. It hooked up better than my 29 Spinelli, but I couldn't turn it as hard. I was able to get 5500 RPM and 91.8 MPH on my GPS. I am able to turn the 29 Spinelli 4 blade 6200 and have seen 6300 RPM for speeds of 96.5 at 6200 and 97.8 at 6300 for an all time best. The acceleration on the 30 Bravo was sluggish compared to the Spinelli and the Bravo carried the bow quite a bit higher. The cruise speeds are dramatically better with the Bravo and at 5500 RPM my oil temp never got above 150 degrees after some long passes. At 6300 the oil temps come up to the 200 to 210 degree range when running hard. My feeling is 2 things. One is my motor is a happier camper in the 6000's than it is in the 5000's and the Spinelli carries the transom a little higher and gives a flatter ride. I would love to try a 30, 28, and 26 labbed Bravo and see what they can do. I also think it would be cool to see what a 29 Mirage would do. I guess I am forgetting about Hydromotive props. I would like to give them a try also. I am interested in seeing if the Bravo props turning a higher RPM will raise the transom like the Spinelli? I know this is somewhat off the topic of this post, but they are real world tests at different RPM on a motor that is built to run at high revs. My rev limiter is set at 6800 and my motor should make good power to 6500. Any suggestions or comments from the experts will be appreciated. If Spinelli didn't close his doors I would be content, but if I bang my custom prop I need a backup plan. Anybody have some props I could try? :)

jdnca1 07-13-2002 02:30 PM

Cobra;

I think I could have pulled 6700 if the cnditions were similar to when I turned 6100 so the speed would likely be very close. Another words I probably only could have turned my 30 5900 on the same day. When Wette Vette gets my 30 back I'm going to get it labbed and then also try a 32 lab to see what happens. One thing I noticed going from the 30 non lab to the 28 lab is slip increased about 3%. My feeling is the 30 lab will pick up maybe 1 or 2 on top, but have the wicked acceleration of the 28. I think the 32 will be the fastest overall...but it will take awhile to get there. Unless of course I spray it...then I know it will be way faster. One thing I've noticed in the past with the 30 (nonlab) that is interesting....when I get off the NOS, I can maintain about 1/2 of the overall speed pick-up.

My theory is this comes back to the HP of the motor being able to maintain the momentum...like drag racers look for when shifting gears. I agree with your theory on every hull having a specific TQ requirement for a given speed...the NOS just gives the extra TQ to get to the higher given speed, once off, the HP of the engine will maintain a portion of the gain or momentum.

There is a guy here in Cincy with the same boat I have with a blower motor..I'm not sure what kind of power he has but I've heard around 850..his TQ should be higher than mine so I'd be interested to see what he runs. I've heard 115+ but I know that is complete BS unless he has monster power and torque 1250+.....One way or another, we'll get to the bottom of this.:cool:

Brad Perry 07-15-2002 09:35 AM

Hey Wette,
 
I'm about 2 weeks away from having mine running if you think you can squeeze a test with my mirage 29 in by then.

JDNCA, what kind of drive are you running??

jdnca1 07-15-2002 10:07 AM

Bravo 1;

hard shafts and tweaked by Merlin 540.

bajah2x105 07-15-2002 09:20 PM

WETTE VETTE, Just wanted to chine in with some food for thought. I also had some negative results with a 30p non labbed Bravo. Too much lift with no bite. I also ran a Spinelli 27 that felt good through the midrange with good attitude but it wacked my limit at 5400rpm. Then I got my hands on a 16" 30p Hydromotive QIV off of a 24' HTM tunnel. This is the prop I currently run at 5100rpm for 84mph on radar. This is the best handling prop yet and seems to yield me good top end with a midrange comparable to the Spinelli. A conversation with Todd at Hydromotive today informed me that the prop diameter is way off for my deep X dim. I'm sending it back to have it cut down to 15.50+- to give me more rpm. According to Todd, I should be running in the upper 80's and only time will tell.
Fact is you have a great prop in that Spinelli and it may be hard to top but I thought you might be interested in hearing about some great results with the Hydro. This may be the ticket for you! Hope this helps a bit. If I could, I would have sent you this prop to try it out since I was down with a blown drive. If you would like to try it in 3 weeks I would be more than willing to help out. Good luck!
COBRA MARTY- You are a walking information machine!:D

ragtop409 07-22-2002 06:40 PM

flat tork
 
I agre with many her MORE is always better but nomader what RPM's you use flat tork is best and peck HP past your rev limiter is just wasted power:D

WETTE VETTE 07-22-2002 07:29 PM

I really appreciate the offers!!!
 
I would love to give both of those props a try. I have been pretty busy with my new job and kinda forgot about this post. Brad, I had some trouble getting on plane with a Mirage prop with this drive, but it was an old standard 25 Mirage. If your 29 is a plus or a larger dia. it may work great and I would love to give it a shot. If your boat is near completion we can work something out some other time. I am sure you will be trying some props yourself in the near future. Baja 2X105, I spoke to hydromotive today and they recommended I try a 15.5" dia. 27 pitch prop and that we cut the dia down if more RPM is desired, assuming the speed is decent. They also said it will be 4 weeks or so until they can deliver a prop to me. I have never tried a hydromotive prop on my boat and would love to try your 30, but from what hydromotive said I would have a hard time getting much more than 5500 RPM, which I feel is to low for my motor. I am in a no lose situation because my 29 Spinelli is awsome. I personally feel it will be very tough to beat, but the guys at Hydromotive feel they can match, if not beat the Spinellis numbers. I just want to find a prop that will give me a solid 95 MPH at 5800 to 6200 RPM in the same weather the Spinelli is hitting 97.8. That would make for a good prop to use on unfamiliar lakes and it is off the shelf so if I bang it I can buy a new one. I again appreciate the offers and like anything, if I bang it I will buy it from you. :p

BLOWN 1100 07-22-2002 11:44 PM

Jdnca
Are you running a timeing retard with the NOS.
I am going to add 300 hp of NOS to each of my
1100s and i need all the info. i can get.


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